replacing inside panels and ceiling

[qttire1]

I have a 2009 rockwood TT and the person I bought it from did not keep up the caulk above the slide and it seems water came in and now has water damage in a small interior panel and a little on the ceiling panel. It seems the ceiling panel has Styrofoam on it and I am sure that is what is damaged.

Here are the pics of the damage.


http://www.qualitytire.com/dune.htm

My question is... I ordered new paneling and ceiling panel from forest river but just want to make sure I am not getting in over my head in replacing. I have to remove some cabinets and microwave to replace the entire ceiling panel but it looks pretty easy, not sure how it is secured though.

The side panel piece is about 7 inches by 20 feet right above the slide out. I am thinking of stripping the wallpaper off to check out the damage, remove any really bad damaged pieces and trim a new piece of panel and glue it over the entire 7" x 20' area then re-seal with trim and seal tape. I was thinking of sanding the edges down and use trim to make it look now so obvious that it was replaced.

Does this sound like the best solution. I think the leak is now fixed just need to cosmetically fix the inside.

[Gdetrailer]

tatest wrote:
That was a nice decription for construction of a framed trailer, but the Rockwood is laminated wall.

Doesn't matter whether construction is conventional framed OR laminated, the GENERAL method of HOW the trailer GOES together IS pretty much the same.

I DID MENTION that construction DOES "vary" some from my description.

Walls and roof are STILL constructed on tables for BOTH TYPES of construction, then lifted and set into place.

The only difference between the two is the inside and outside of the walls are bonded together with some sort of wooden OR metal framing creating a one piece structural panel.

Laminated CAN be "repaired" so to speak but you might not be able to remove the inside wall paneling fully. In this case you would simply remove any loose damaged paneling then GLUE NEW PANELING OVER TOP THE EXISTING GOOD PANELING. While not the best choice, it certainly beats the alternative of SCRAPPING the trailer.

That of course assuming the inside structure is made of aluminum framing (if wood framing all bets are off unless you can remove and replace all rotted wood).

[tatest]

That was a nice decription for construction of a framed trailer, but the Rockwood is laminated wall.

An aluminum perimeter frame with some stiffeners is set into a foam core that has had channels cut for the frame, and for routing in-wall wiring. Don't know about F-R, but some manufacturers put the wiring harness in the channels at this stage. Also in cutouts in the foam core will be the attachment plates, heavier plywood or sheet metal, for everything that will hang on the interior or exterior of the wall.

On this goes a precut interior panel the size of the whole wall, which has adhesive on it. Flipped over, a precut luan exterior panel the size of the whole wall, with adhesive is applied. What happens next depends on pressing technology at the plant.

If using mechanical presses, this luan-foam-luan sandwich gets pressed as the adhesive sets. Then the outer fiberglass skin, pre-cut and whole wall size, with adhesive, is layed on the sandwich and the wall gets pressed again.

If using vacuum bonding, the outer skin goes on before pressing, the whole thing goes in the bag at once, and pressed together for a longer time. Slower setting adhesives are used.

But either way, the entire surface of the interior and exterior panels is glued to that foam core. This sandwich is what gives the wall its basic strength, and it is meant to never come apart.

What happens when a wall like this gets wet inside is that the luan panel rots, its own two or three layers separate. Remnants of luan will be pretty well stuck to the foam. Because the adhesive is stronger than the foam, chances are pretty good that pulling off the interior panel where it is still solid, or cleaning remnants where it rotted, will tear up the foam core.

What happens in further manufacture varies. In some RVs, all the interior fixtures that will set on the floor are set on the floor. The laminated wall can be set on the floor, or it can be fastened to the edge of the floor frame (or if Winnebago, two metal channels interlock.

The ceiling and roof might be built up framed with rafters or trusses atop the walls, or the whole thing might be another sandwich panel (this is still pretty rare in low cost TTs). If coming as a single piece, the top might screw to the edges of the wall, the wall might screw to the edges of the roof structure, or interlocking metal channels might be used.

The result, for repair purposes, is that to repair a badly damage laminated panel wall, it is necessary to detach everything from the wall, including the roof, and remove the wall from the RV, replacing it with a newly built wall, or at least rebuild the wall as it was originally built on the bench, if you can do so without destroying the foam core.

This makes laminated walls so expensive to repair that a major delamination is often a total loss, even on a fairly new TT. It is not usually a DIY job because of the need for the specialized materials, tooling, workspace, and pressing equipment.

This is one reason some RV buyers prefer walls that are built up as frames, rather than laminated foam core panels. These are still not simple to repair, but repairs can be made.

If your roof-ceiling structure is not laminated, that is probably reparable. The section over the slideout, what has most likely happened is that the luan panel has come apart, and you might be able to make a cosmetic repair. I don't know that you can make a structural repair, to restore the original strength of that section over the slideout.

Whether or not you need to restore that strength, I also don't know. If you are lucky, most of that section might have aluminum framing, a header over the slide opening and some studs carrying the weight of the of the roof support channel down to the header. But this framing, if there, is primarily reinforcement of that narrow section over the large opening, because in a laminated panel, the main load carrying is done by the inner and outer skins, as they are bonded to the foam core. You will not regain that strength with a local patch, and you are not likely to duplicate the bond strength without pressing the wall.

I wish you good luck. As it is a small damaged area (or maybe I should say, if it really is just a small area that has come apart) you might have some probability of success, if you are careful in the future not to put to much weight on the roof over that slide opening.

[westend]

I think you need to reassess where the water is entering. Your pictures show the top of the slide wall trim having been sealed. I don't believe that is your only water entry point. The close proximity of the air conditioner and the delamination patterns point towards a leak on the roof or between the edge trim and wall.
It would be a heart breaker to do all the cosmetic work and still have leaks. I'd suggest you have a pressurized leak test done before proceeding with the interior work.

Good luck and keep us posted.

[Gdetrailer]

qttire1 wrote:
I have a 2009 rockwood TT and the person I bought it from did not keep up the caulk above the slide and it seems water came in and now has water damage in a small interior panel and a little on the ceiling panel. It seems the ceiling panel has Styrofoam on it and I am sure that is what is damaged.

Here are the pics of the damage.


http://www.qualitytire.com/dune.htm

My question is... I ordered new paneling and ceiling panel from forest river but just want to make sure I am not getting in over my head in replacing. I have to remove some cabinets and microwave to replace the entire ceiling panel but it looks pretty easy, not sure how it is secured though.

The side panel piece is about 7 inches by 20 feet right above the slide out. I am thinking of stripping the wallpaper off to check out the damage, remove any really bad damaged pieces and trim a new piece of panel and glue it over the entire 7" x 20' area then re-seal with trim and seal tape. I was thinking of sanding the edges down and use trim to make it look now so obvious that it was replaced.

Does this sound like the best solution. I think the leak is now fixed just need to cosmetically fix the inside.

You ARE over your Head.

No matter how small of an area that has been appearance wise affected, the damage is many times worse than you will ever think..

Removal of paneling and even ceiling is not going to be an easy task.

Understanding typical Rv construction is key to how you approach removal, replacement and repair of damage.

Construction starts at the floor level, plywood (or even chipboard) is laid down first. The walls and roof are built on large tables with the inside paneling GLUED and stapled on the walls. The ceiling is GLUED and stapled to the upside down roof trusses.

The walls are then hoisted and set on top of the floor.

The roof is flipped over so the ceiling is now on the underside and the roof assembly is set onto the walls.

The inside walls, cabinets are now stapled, screwed or nailed to the side walls and even the ceiling panels FROM THE OUTSIDE.

The wiring is done from the outside.

The insulation is done from the outside.

Once that has been done the siding and roofing is put on.

There are some variations of this construction but the most part it is pretty much very close.

In a nutshell, attempts to remove cabinets without damaging them is very difficult and time consuming job. You better have a lot of time on your hands and take your time.

You will need to find creative ways to cut any and all fasteners blindly without causing damage to the cabinets.

Unless the damage is behind the cabinets you might find cutting around them is going to be a better solution.

Removing paneling or the vinyl surface of the paneling is not an easy task. The paneling is attached with lots of glue and staples and the vinyl covering is 100% glued to the paneling and attempts to remove it will result in damage the paneling under it.

I am not saying it can not be done but that it is going to be a very large and time consuming project..

[myredracer]

Removal is simply the reverse of installation.... :W I think you will find that re & re will be a straightforward systematic process.

It's aluminum framing? Is the exterior fiberglass wall damaged too?

There isn't wallpaper on luan plywood. The finish surface is bonded to the luan plywood. I would just go ahead and take that entire long piece off.

Installing the new panelling will be easy. The harder part will be removing cabinetry, but it's not really that difficult. You will find that cabinets are typically held in place by screws into framing or the luan plywood. A cabinet assembly itself is held together with small gauge staples into 1x1 and 1x2. Pretty much everything is stapled or screwed. Luan plywood on ceilings and interior walls comes off easily, except if it's water damaged, you may have to take it off in small pieces. If a sandwich exterior wall construction, it's bonded to the framing. Not sure what glue should be used for this.

I've never looked into it, but I would get an air nailer that will use the same staples. I would suggest getting some screws that are the type used in RV construction. Not sure if the correct term is pocket hole screws. You may find that you want to improve on the fastening of cabinetry.

I would try and salvage all the moldings you can. The vinyl edge trim should be re-usable unless it gets damaged. You will need the tape stuff they use over seems on ceilings and walls, if you haven't got it yet. With molding, if possible, pull nails or staples out from the back to avoid damaging the face.

Try not to damage each sheet of luan so you can use them as a template. You may also find that things aren't square. You can use a sharp utility knife to cut through luan. It also cuts well on a table saw or chop saw. When you pull luan sheets off, be careful of all the sharp staples sticking out.

This could be an opportunity to make some improvements. For example, if replacing ceiling panelling, you could install LED puck lights instead of re-installing the pancake ones. Or it's possible you may find that the original insulation job in the ceiling isn't the greatest and you can add more.

Please post progress reports with photos. Have fun!