RV Problems

[hohenwald48]

I see a lot of posts on this site and others about problems that folks have with their "new" campers (of all classes).

I wonder how much of this is unrealistic expectations on the part of new RV buyers. As much as it would be nice for RVs to come out of the factory with a failure rate similar to that of automobile manufacturers, is that a realistic hope? Would that make the most basic travel trailer cost in the same realm as a high end motor coach today?

It seems the RV owners with the least number of problems are those who "came up thru the ranks" from tent camping to more complex RVs. The ones who seem to have all the problems are the buyers of large RVs as their first purchase. They are trying to get by without the benefit of the education and experience of working their way up to larger units.

I guess I don't really have a question or a point for that matter. Just rambling.

[rbpru]

I am sure the major RV manufacturer would love to build and charge for high-end quality. If people were willing to pay for it they would be buying those top drawer units and the average TT would be setting on the lot.

I believe the comment that the quality is inconsistent is perhaps the most accurate description. That, plus the fact that some peoples “major defect” is not an issue to others; make a defect hard to define.

For example, I consider a TT where the retracted slide blocks the bathroom door a major design error, other could care less.

[2012Coleman]

RobertRyan wrote:

2012Coleman wrote:

hohenwald48 wrote:


2012coleman,

I don't think anybody ever said "unreasonable". I think the phrase was "unrealistic". There is a big difference in the two. If you expect everything to work on a new RV then you have "unrealistic" expectations or you are new to the RV world.

I stand corrected - the OP said unrealistic.

But, I still stand by my statement - just plug in the correct word - same difference.

Your view is exactly why the RV industry continues to produce products that are sub-par. They know that people out there will pay for them regardless. Kind of like US auto manufacturers in the 70's to late 90's.

In my case, I wanted to join the lifestyle. and unfortunately, I had to purchase the lesser of evils presented in my months of shopping and research.

I only wish there was foreign competition for the likes of the TT's posted by the guy(don't remember his handle) from Australia.

Saw your post after a search, but the poor quality products is very true. Not many imported US RV's last here

Thanks for the confirmation Robert - I don't see the CEO's of US manufacturers loosing any sleep over this. Actually, from the standpoint of auto manufacturers, they are in an enviable position. They really need to be defended? NIMO.

[RobertRyan]

2012Coleman wrote:

hohenwald48 wrote:


2012coleman,

I don't think anybody ever said "unreasonable". I think the phrase was "unrealistic". There is a big difference in the two. If you expect everything to work on a new RV then you have "unrealistic" expectations or you are new to the RV world.

I stand corrected - the OP said unrealistic.

But, I still stand by my statement - just plug in the correct word - same difference.

Your view is exactly why the RV industry continues to produce products that are sub-par. They know that people out there will pay for them regardless. Kind of like US auto manufacturers in the 70's to late 90's.

In my case, I wanted to join the lifestyle. and unfortunately, I had to purchase the lesser of evils presented in my months of shopping and research.

I only wish there was foreign competition for the likes of the TT's posted by the guy(don't remember his handle) from Australia.

Saw your post after a search, but the poor quality products is very true. Not many imported US RV's last here

[4X4Dodger]

2012Coleman wrote:

4X4Dodger wrote:

2012Coleman wrote:

It would be very interesting to have dinner with a few CEO's of RV manufacturers and listen to their problems....I am sure that would open quite a few eyes here.

Here is a guy that would love to have dinner with these millionaires. I'm sure their hearts bleed for him.

CW has our RV for 13 months and counting

CW is a Dealer not a manufacturer. I was referring to the CEO's of the Manufacturers not the seller. Where the truth lies between 3 or more parties in a dispute is nearly impossible to tell from the standpoint of a contributor to this forum.

Yes - so was I. CW didn't build it, they are just in the usual situation of not being able to fix the thing.

Lots of stupid stuff happened to my brand new TT past the warranty. Pi$$ poor materials and manufacturing processes. I had an extensive list - not nitpicking either. I'm over it, but maybe I'm just being unrealistic in my expectations for 30K worth of something in my driveway... :H Oh and guess what is happening now? The aluminum siding is corroding due to something behind it - most likely the glue. There's holes forming - I have pictures. Guess what? Thor doesn't care! This according to my FIL - who is an accomplished pilot and airplane mechanic - he does his own tear downs as well.

So many people with brand new units sitting in service for months. Put me on the guest list - I'll do the surf and turf...

Well I am sorry for your problems and I do sympathize with your plight. It sounds as if you have had more than your share for sure. I am equally sure that many people are in your shoes. And your complaints are valid for sure.

But when a new Impala costs $40,000 getting a 34ft completely equipped small rolling apartment for $30k is a feat for sure. And I can also see the plight of the Company CEO's who are trying to make it all work...the low price, some semblance of quality, keeping up with demand, workforce issues, regulations and a marketplace that continually demands bigger, bigger and better, always lighter and for LESS money and still try to make a profit in one of the most volatile industries in America. All I try to do is show a bit of the other side we like to bash so much. Everybody who has a dog in this fight has legitimate problems caused by the reality of the market.

[2012Coleman]

4X4Dodger wrote:

2012Coleman wrote:

It would be very interesting to have dinner with a few CEO's of RV manufacturers and listen to their problems....I am sure that would open quite a few eyes here.

Here is a guy that would love to have dinner with these millionaires. I'm sure their hearts bleed for him.

CW has our RV for 13 months and counting

CW is a Dealer not a manufacturer. I was referring to the CEO's of the Manufacturers not the seller. Where the truth lies between 3 or more parties in a dispute is nearly impossible to tell from the standpoint of a contributor to this forum.

Yes - so was I. CW didn't build it, they are just in the usual situation of not being able to fix the thing.

Lots of stupid stuff happened to my brand new TT past the warranty. Pi$$ poor materials and manufacturing processes. I had an extensive list - not nitpicking either. I'm over it, but maybe I'm just being unrealistic in my expectations for 30K worth of something in my driveway... :H Oh and guess what is happening now? The aluminum siding is corroding due to something behind it - most likely the glue. There's holes forming - I have pictures. Guess what? Thor doesn't care! This according to my FIL - who is an accomplished pilot and airplane mechanic - he does his own tear downs as well.

So many people with brand new units sitting in service for months. Put me on the guest list - I'll do the surf and turf...

[4X4Dodger]

I just finished taking apart the small slide in my 2004 Gulstream Innsbruck. This meant taking the entire skin off and the interior wall coverings, removing and replacing some of the framing and replacing the floor.

The factory installed floor of my small slide was solid 1 1/8" Marine plywood. (Covered in black plastic on the underside which was the cause of much of the problem)The walls were made with 2x2 lumber with a header of individual 2x6's over the window.

When I went to look for 1 1/8 plywood of ANY kind there was NONE to be had in Minot period. I ended up making the new floor out of a sheet of 3/4 Marine plywood with a sheet of 3/8ths non marine plywood glued, screwed and stapled together. I put the Marine plywood on the bottom exposed to the elements (when deployed) and used the non marine 3/8th for the "top" or inside. I primed and painted and polyurethane'd the underside, edges and a bit of the top and did not replace the water/moisture trapping plastic sheet.

The insulation was not great but adequate. I removed it and replaced it all.

I can tell you there were MORE than enough screws and staples in this entire assembly to sink the Titanic. And they were not cheap coarse thread galvanized screws. They were for the most part fine thread high quality steel. However some had rusted over the years due to a water leak from an earlier time that had been successfully repaired. Unfortunately some of the structure having been left wet at the original repair did Dry rot.

As for screws vs staples. In every case I dealt with the staples lasted longer and were very strong, holding better in most cases than screws would have or did.

It was also interesting to take this slide apart and see in what order it was assembled, making it in some cases very difficult to take apart at all.

My judgement on the Innsbruck after this is that it is made to a very good standard of construction quality (in 2004) with quality materials and good workmanship considering the time constraints in a production line setting.

There is no OSB or particle board in the entire trailer as far as I can tell.

This project was very instructive and while my repairs made it ultimately stronger than it was originally it was still very well made at the factory.

[subcamper]

toedtoes wrote:
I think the problem is with the inconsistency of the quality - not the lack of quality.

With other purchases, you have a pretty good expectation as to where the weaknesses will be in the quality of the item. With RVs, there is nothing to base your decisions against - the issues aren't consistent throughout a brand or a model. They are all over the place.

X2

I am an engineer who has worked on setting up assembly procedures.

Cars and Trucks are made on fixtures and jigs which ensure every vehicle is made almost exactly the same, assembler-independent.

RVs are one-offs where the assembly quality is almost entirely assembler-dependent.

The relatively low number of each RV sold pretty much make it not cost effective to create expensive fixturing for assembly.

As long as this is true, there will never be consistency of quality from one trailer to another.

Imagine two identical trailers. Both assemblers have a staple gun and pound away with it as fast as possible. One of the trailers has 30 of the 50 staples actually go into the hidden support behind the piece they are stapling on. The other trailer has only 10 of the 50 staples hit their target. Guess which one will hold up longer?

The materials that arrive at the assembly factories are actually pretty well designed. As others have stated, it's the assembly that is the wildcard here.

I have wondered if it would be a good idea to sell a "kit" to those of us who would assemble our own trailer. The kit would include all necessary parts to build the trailer. Then we could decide to upgrade fasteners, etc as we deem necessary during the assembly we are performing. We could do extra steps, like putting truck bedliner coatings on frames for example.

Steve

[4X4Dodger]

2012Coleman wrote:

It would be very interesting to have dinner with a few CEO's of RV manufacturers and listen to their problems....I am sure that would open quite a few eyes here.

Here is a guy that would love to have dinner with these millionaires. I'm sure their hearts bleed for him.

CW has our RV for 13 months and counting

CW is a Dealer not a manufacturer. I was referring to the CEO's of the Manufacturers not the seller. Where the truth lies between 3 or more parties in a dispute is nearly impossible to tell from the standpoint of a contributor to this forum.

[toedtoes]

I think the problem is with the inconsistency of the quality - not the lack of quality.

With other purchases, you have a pretty good expectation as to where the weaknesses will be in the quality of the item. With RVs, there is nothing to base your decisions against - the issues aren't consistent throughout a brand or a model. They are all over the place.

I buy "cheap" on a lot of stuff because I understand where the quality suffers and feel the cost savings are worth that loss of quality. I also buy "expensive" when I believe that they are providing me with a standard of quality that is worth the price.

With RVs, there is no way to know if A will be better than B - it's all a ****shoot as to whether you get a good RV or a POS.

[rbpru]

I suspect that those who buy high end RVs or worry about what the neighbors think, are not bothered by having to buy a bigger TV.

[x96mnn]

wing_zealot wrote:

Lynnmor wrote:

wing_zealot wrote:
You want higher quality, buy higher quality. It's certainly available. Most people aren't willing to pay for higher quality, then ***** when they don't get it. You get what you pay for.

Trouble is..... it's not available. You don't get what you pay for, for example stripped screws actually cost more than correctly installed screws. Too many people accept this poor workmanship and even defend their purchase while not recognizing the problems they just bought. If a manufacturer cannot build a product correctly, then they shouldn't exist.

I disagree, I think it is available. The problem isn't a stripped screws, it's not putting in a new screw next to the stripped screw. It's putting 1 screw in when 3 or 4 is needed. It's using 1/8 inch plywood when 3/8 inch is needed. It's using a C channel frame when a I beam is needed. You need to find the manufacturer that is rectifying the stripped screw, putting in 4 screws, using 3/8 inch plywood, and an I beam frame. They exist. (All adjectives are meant for illustrative purposes only, not actual - Just my experience, your experience may vary).

I spent over a year looking for the last RV I bought. I saw a lot of variations in quality. I believe I got my money's worth. Time will tell. But I do know there are some out there that I would not buy even though they were many thousands less than what I paid for mine.

Agree with your comments 100%

I am very happy paying myself 20k I saved on buying my Sandpiper compared to a more robust model. Not only are people not willing to pay for quality because their neighbour looks like they got more for less on day 1, but they can't haul more. The High end made RVs are not being towed by half tons if they are over 26ft long. Well I am sure they could but your adding 1000 to 2000pds compared to FR and Thor products.

Check out a Black Rock 26bhs and compare it to say a flagstaff 27BESS. Similar floor plans, around $15000 dollars in price difference and 1500pds in weight. Willing to bet the screws are not falling out of that marine grade plywood!

Problem is, your not going to walk into a CW and buy one of these, or much of anywhere as dealers know what people are going to buy 99% of the time, the flagstaff!

PS I have not had to replace any screws that popped out of my sandpiper. I did my sprinter which I felt equally happy with! I was traveling 70mph for roughly 160 miles when it happened so I was exceeding the recommended haul limit lol.

[2012Coleman]

It would be very interesting to have dinner with a few CEO's of RV manufacturers and listen to their problems....I am sure that would open quite a few eyes here.

Here is a guy that would love to have dinner with these millionaires. I'm sure their hearts bleed for him.

CW has our RV for 13 months and counting

[rbpru]

The only thing that works on an RV, is the owner. :B

I am sure many people pick them up and never look back.

[wing_zealot]

Lynnmor wrote:

wing_zealot wrote:
You want higher quality, buy higher quality. It's certainly available. Most people aren't willing to pay for higher quality, then ***** when they don't get it. You get what you pay for.

Trouble is..... it's not available. You don't get what you pay for, for example stripped screws actually cost more than correctly installed screws. Too many people accept this poor workmanship and even defend their purchase while not recognizing the problems they just bought. If a manufacturer cannot build a product correctly, then they shouldn't exist.

I disagree, I think it is available. The problem isn't a stripped screws, it's not putting in a new screw next to the stripped screw. It's putting 1 screw in when 3 or 4 is needed. It's using 1/8 inch plywood when 3/8 inch is needed. It's using a C channel frame when a I beam is needed. You need to find the manufacturer that is rectifying the stripped screw, putting in 4 screws, using 3/8 inch plywood, and an I beam frame. They exist. (All adjectives are meant for illustrative purposes only, not actual - Just my experience, your experience may vary).

I spent over a year looking for the last RV I bought. I saw a lot of variations in quality. I believe I got my money's worth. Time will tell. But I do know there are some out there that I would not buy even though they were many thousands less than what I paid for mine.