cancel
Showing results forย 
Search instead forย 
Did you mean:ย 

RV Show Reflections (Do RV Engineers RV?)

bstar1952
Explorer
Explorer
Went to the San Antonio RV show yesterday and we really enjoyed seeing all the new RVs. Was pleasently surprised at construction quality on most models, not a lot of shoddy construction issues were observed, as in years past, and I looked hard. Jayco is using the new GY Endurance tires on almost all new TT's and 5th Wheels, a great improvement in my opinion. However; here's a few observations that made me scratch my head.
1. Placing sewer connections under slides. Saw this on several different brands. Even the salesmen were scratching their heads when I pointed this out.
2. Water/electric/cable connections. One model we looked at had the electric connection on the rear, city water on the front left, fresh water in the center, sewer flush under a slide and cable on the side near the rear. Seems it would be a PITA setting up.
2. In several models, the sleeper sofa was placed so that it could not be unfolded entirely., dinette booth was in the way. This one was unbelievable.
3. Television placement. One of our favorite floorplans had the TV mounted in an area that could not be seen from the sofa. The sofa was the main seating area in this model - just Wow!
3. Mattresses on bunk beds. Some were so thin, you might as well be sleeping on the plywood base.
4. Wonder where RV manufactures get these no-name brand televisions?
Anyway, was impressed with some of the innovations on a lot of the models. Unfortunately, these innovations come with a higher price tag. Was looking to downsize from my current TT but thinking I'll keep it for a few more years. Yesterday was the 1st day of the show and for a Thursday, there were a lot of folks attending. The RV industry is booming.
Bstar1952
Bandera, Texas
2020 Ram 2500,6.4 Hemi
2019 (East to West) Della Terra 29KRK
Fastway E2 WHD Hitch
35 REPLIES 35

rbpru
Explorer
Explorer
If you want those things, you will have to install them yourself. We put a full length mirror on the bath room door, another mirror opposite the television so it could be seen from the dinette, cut the pantry door in half so the bottom would not hit the thrash can. This is in addition to numerous Command wall hooks and a cutting board over the sink. Oh yes a memory foam mattresses pad on the bed.

I am sure the next owner will scrap it all and replace it with what his wife wants. ๐Ÿ™‚ ๐Ÿ™‚ They will probably keep the memory foam.
Twenty six foot 2010 Dutchmen Lite pulled with a 2011 EcoBoost F-150 4x4.

Just right for Grandpa, Grandma and the dog.

wnjj
Explorer II
Explorer II
myredracer wrote:
They also don't use females in the design process (as pointed out by my DW). That's why kitchen counters usually have space for little more than say one plate, or a coffee pot or a loaf of bread, one at a time. Or why there's no place for a garbage container and you have to hang a plastic bag off a knob on the stove. Or why there's no place to put shoes at the door. Or why there's no place to store towels or linens. Or why they don't put a shelf mid-height in upper cabinets. Or why there's no place to store a bag of dog food. Etc., etc.

Issues are often hidden where you can't see them like with electrical and plumbing or improperly sealed exteriors. Some are in plain sight and many still don't seem them like cabinet doors & drawers that are mounted wrong or tires & axles that are maxed to the limit. One that kills me (as pointed out above) is when you can't see the TV from where you'd normally be sitting to watch it. One of my pet peeves is dead space that could easily be used for storage or other purposes but the manufacturers put on blank panels or make the space totally inaccessible. Every cubic inch for storage in a TT is like gold. For ex., below are a few pics from our current TT. Came with a huge inaccessible space next to the shower with a blank wall on the bedroom side. I bought some factory doors and trim from the dealer and built some built-in cabinets for storing towels and linens and other bulky items. The manufacturer is just being cheap and lazy.

The most recent RV show I was at was last fall and I seriously doubt much has changed in recent years. JMHO. What I did see that was surprisingly different was almost no TTs for older couples and a huge emphasis on ones for families. If there ever was a next time, I'd only be looking at brands that generally are well thought of on forums and since we're on the west cost, that'd be OutdoorsRV. I could mention a few brands that I wouldn't touch for anything but won't.



Women eat dog food? ๐Ÿ˜›

Nice, professional looking cabinets you added there.

rbpru
Explorer
Explorer
In the automotive world Assembly is king. If you can save assembly time you can sell it cheaper. Serviceability is an owner problem.

In the TT world it is floor design that is king. If the TT has a good comfy feel to it, that is what matters. How it is plumbed, wired, and serviced is secondary.

There is a big deference between poor design and shoddy assembly. The purchaser chooses the poor design.

If you want 2x4 walls, solid wood floors, casement type windows and such, you are not looking for a travel trailer, you are looking for a Tiny House.

The RV industry had 2x2 walls, wood paneling, chip board tables and camping type appliances in my 1970's vintage Shasta knock off. Today the materials are better, but it is still built like an RV.

And, judging from the year over year increase in sales, they know what the public prefers.
Twenty six foot 2010 Dutchmen Lite pulled with a 2011 EcoBoost F-150 4x4.

Just right for Grandpa, Grandma and the dog.

JesLookin
Explorer
Explorer
LIKE2BUILD wrote:
In short, probably not.

1) The marketing team comes up with packages and features they think will sell the most RV's with the highest sales margins.
2) The designers draw up concepts that accommodate these desired packages.
3) Project managers estimate build costs and negotiations begin to ensure features, production costs, and sales price all match up to meet the margins
4) Process engineers and designers then work to draw up an assembly process that is as efficient as possible to keep costs down while packing all the features into the available space.

IF this all works well you get an RV with well placed features and options that make sense and are very useable.

If this doesn't work well? You get an RV that has a bunch of features that aren't necessarily sensible.

This is the process used on just about every project I've ever worked on. Hopefully when you're done, someone will buy your stuff. By the number of campers running around these days, they must be doing something right.
2013 Arctic Fox 27-5L
2014 Ram 3500 6.7L CTD, Crew Cab

myredracer
Explorer II
Explorer II
They also don't use females in the design process (as pointed out by my DW). That's why kitchen counters usually have space for little more than say one plate, or a coffee pot or a loaf of bread, one at a time. Or why there's no place for a garbage container and you have to hang a plastic bag off a knob on the stove. Or why there's no place to put shoes at the door. Or why there's no place to store towels or linens. Or why they don't put a shelf mid-height in upper cabinets. Or why there's no place to store a bag of dog food. Etc., etc.

Issues are often hidden where you can't see them like with electrical and plumbing or improperly sealed exteriors. Some are in plain sight and many still don't seem them like cabinet doors & drawers that are mounted wrong or tires & axles that are maxed to the limit. One that kills me (as pointed out above) is when you can't see the TV from where you'd normally be sitting to watch it. One of my pet peeves is dead space that could easily be used for storage or other purposes but the manufacturers put on blank panels or make the space totally inaccessible. Every cubic inch for storage in a TT is like gold. For ex., below are a few pics from our current TT. Came with a huge inaccessible space next to the shower with a blank wall on the bedroom side. I bought some factory doors and trim from the dealer and built some built-in cabinets for storing towels and linens and other bulky items. The manufacturer is just being cheap and lazy.

The most recent RV show I was at was last fall and I seriously doubt much has changed in recent years. JMHO. What I did see that was surprisingly different was almost no TTs for older couples and a huge emphasis on ones for families. If there ever was a next time, I'd only be looking at brands that generally are well thought of on forums and since we're on the west cost, that'd be OutdoorsRV. I could mention a few brands that I wouldn't touch for anything but won't.

bstar1952
Explorer
Explorer
craftyfox wrote:
We just got home from the same show..spent over 4 hrs there and there wasn't one RV in the size range of our current rv that I would trade mine for. Apparently the people who design these rigs DON'T have to live in them!! The colors are terrible, the floor plans suck and the furniture stinks..I was NOT a happy camper when I left!!


Yes, I agree on the crappy furniture. Other than the crappy bunk mattresses, also noticed some very cheaply made sofas and easy chairs. The higher-end models, both 5th wheel and TT's had nice name brand furniture though. We've decided to keep our current Jayco White Hawk as I didn't see anything I liked better.
Bstar1952
Bandera, Texas
2020 Ram 2500,6.4 Hemi
2019 (East to West) Della Terra 29KRK
Fastway E2 WHD Hitch

ken56
Explorer
Explorer
Planning on going to the Knoxville show...in Sevierville (go figure) today or tomorrow. I do the same thing looking at the new so called innovations and floorplans and while some appliances may be getting better and furniture a bit more fancy I was not terribly impressed at last years show. Looking forward to this years show though just to see the shiny new things.

That said, we purchased a new 2017 Keystone Laredo travel trailer last June and could not be happier with it. Floorplan is great and quailty is pretty good. The galley gray drain is under a slide is about the only design "flaw" I find inconvenient. Otherwise its fairly well laid out and easy to set up. It is a beast to pull at 37 ft. long but thats the price you pay for what you want in a floorplan and other amenities I guess.

dks
Explorer
Explorer
Went to the Hershey show last year and was surprised how poorly designed some RV's are. All glitz and no practical.

Ralph_Cramden
Explorer II
Explorer II
ScottG wrote:


I think the real problem is they aren't assembled by people who use them.


The real problem is the people assembling them mostly work on the piecework model, where quantity is the goal not quality. Jacob Yoder is in a hurry to screw his 25 dinettes together, so he can leave at 1:00 PM to slop the hogs.

It's not going to change anytime soon if ever. An economic downturn that cleans the RV industry's clock may change it a little..........but very little.
Too many geezers, self appointed moderators, experts, and disappearing posts for me. Enjoy. How many times can the same thing be rehashed over and over?

craftyfox
Explorer
Explorer
We just got home from the same show..spent over 4 hrs there and there wasn't one RV in the size range of our current rv that I would trade mine for. Apparently the people who design these rigs DON'T have to live in them!! The colors are terrible, the floor plans suck and the furniture stinks..I was NOT a happy camper when I left!!

bobndot
Explorer II
Explorer II
Even the salesmen were scratching their heads when I pointed this out.


That's just as scary as the poor design . :S

goducks10
Explorer
Explorer
TxGearhead wrote:
If the line workers are doing shoddy work it still the responsibility of their supervisors and managers. If supervision accepts shoddy work, then the assemblers will assume it is OK.
Apparently they need more work practice guidance, documentation, personal responsibility for their work. You know. We've all probably been there.

And more money. Atta boys don't pay the bills.

TxGearhead
Explorer
Explorer
If the line workers are doing shoddy work it still the responsibility of their supervisors and managers. If supervision accepts shoddy work, then the assemblers will assume it is OK.
Apparently they need more work practice guidance, documentation, personal responsibility for their work. You know. We've all probably been there.
2018 Ram 3500 CC LB DRW 4X4 Cummins Aisin Laramie Pearl White
2018 Landmark Oshkosh
2008 Bigfoot 25C9.4
2014 NauticStar 21 ShallowBay 150HP Yamaha
2016 GoDevil 18X44 35HP Surface Drive

colliehauler
Explorer II
Explorer II
My sewer hookups are under the slide as well. Access to the hydraulic pump can only be done when the slide is out, not fun if you have a issue. My floor plan works very well with some updates by me.

Wild_Card
Explorer
Explorer
As with most engineering fields the answer is no. They draw nice in theory but thats it.
2015 Ram 3500 Dually
Sundowner 2286GM Pro-Grade Toyhauler