TC Newbie with ?'s

[Prevost97]

Hello all,

I am an experienced, long term class A owner. I would like to get myself a truck camper for occasional use, probably never more than a week at a time, and by myself 99% of the time...the wife only travels in the class A! I am imagining a pop-up type camper, for easier access to off-road locations, old-time/bluegrass music festivals, and etc. We live in southern Arkansas, and I can't ever imagine wanting to use the little camper for cold weather camping (below 32F is very cold for us southerners!).

I have a paid for 2016 Ram crew cab 2500HD 4X4 with the 6.4L gas Hemi, but it has the shorter 6' 4" bed. Payload is 3300lbs. Since we have a 45' class A, I have no desire to get a larger truck or a very big/heavy TC. I pull this Ram 2500 behind our class A, as well. I had a little 23 ft. Jayco that I pulled several times last year, but I sold it last week, because I didn't like pulling it, and there were many places that I would like to have gone, but the Jayco couldn't.

From my research so far, I understand that I need to purchase and install some frame mount tie downs, and a set of turnbuckles, along with a rubber bed mat to protect my spray in bedliner. I won't need to remove the plastic rail protectors will I? I do know that if I go to pick up a camper, that I will need to leave the tailgate at home. I haven't researched how to remove my tailgate, but it shouldn't be too difficult...famous last words.

I think that I might like an indoor wet bath, but that markedly limits my possibilities, so I am undecided. The only campers that I can see within 250-400 miles of my home are some new Palomino and Northstar SC popups, but I would much rather buy used, to avoid the depreciation and sales tax double whammy.

Any suggestions, advice, etc? I browsed and scanned through 12 months worth of posts here today! :B

Thanks in advance!!

[Prevost97]

One more try with another image hosting site....

[Prevost97]

I wanted to do a test for uploading photos, so here is my truck with the tailgate off, ready to install my forklift tie downs and rubber bedliner (to protect bed and prevent TC slippage). The second photo is a picture of the load ratings on my OEM Firestone Transforce AT tires (LT 285/60/R20) for the non-believers. Close observers my notice by OEM truck bed step. It will have to come off for the tie down to mount properly.

[Prevost97]

Thanks for your input and advice, d3500ram, I appreciate your candidness.

I will see what I can find on my wheels.

[d3500ram]

Prevost97 wrote:
Here is the Tire Rack link to my 20 inch Firestone Transforce AT tires. Mine are the 285/60/R20 size. Load range E, max load at 80 PSI listed at 3640lbs:

...

A decent LI rated tire... but when running the weight number calcs be sure to check that it works with your loaded rear weights with camper loaded.
Are you able to determine the rating of the wheel? Back in the day, mfgr's used to stamp it on the inside, but I have not been able to find any type of documentation (written or otherwise) that provides such a specification.

When I went through this chore, the only assumption that I could make was that the wheels from the factory had to match at least the LI of the tires that were wrapped around them.

[d3500ram]

JimK-NY wrote:

d3500ram wrote:
... But Nitto (and perhaps Toyo) do make a higher weight rating tire. There are a few Load Index= 126 with weight capacity of 3746# per tire, but I have found no credible evidence of stock wheel capacity rating.

......

I looked, checked webpages, checked with tire dealers and could not find any tire with a load rating over 3200 pounds. I think those Nitto/Toyo tires are no longer available.

I got a little scare there, because it is the tire that after hours of research works the best for my application... and as far as I can tell, the LI 126 Nitto is still on their website.

Nitto Terra Grappler

[Prevost97]

Here is the Tire Rack link to my 20 inch Firestone Transforce AT tires. Mine are the 285/60/R20 size. Load range E, max load at 80 PSI listed at 3640lbs:

https://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires.jsp?tireMake=Firestone&tireModel=Transforce+AT&sidewall=Outline...

[srschang]

Michelin Defender. I have 40,000 miles on these, probably will replace before this winter. Wife and I drove 9800 miles last September from NY to Glacier, Oregon, Northern California & back with our Ram 3500 SRW shortbed. Truck handled great, even on the 80 mph highways. We have a 2003 Travel Lite, I weighed it a long time ago, but can't remember what it was. Seems like just over 3000#

Data below is from the Tire Rack website.
LT275/70R18
125R
Load Index 125 = 3,690lbs (1677kg) per tire
Speed Rating “R” = 106mph (170kph)
E

[JimK-NY]

d3500ram wrote:
... But Nitto (and perhaps Toyo) do make a higher weight rating tire. There are a few Load Index= 126 with weight capacity of 3746# per tire, but I have found no credible evidence of stock wheel capacity rating.

......

I looked, checked webpages, checked with tire dealers and could not find any tire with a load rating over 3200 pounds. I think those Nitto/Toyo tires are no longer available.

[JimK-NY]

Here is how the weight works. You look up the weight of the truck, add weight for passengers and fuel, add the manufacturer's wet weight for the camper, then add the estimated weight of food, clothing and everything you will carry. When you are all done and have a final staggering estimated weight, you will be short of the actual weight by 1000 pounds.

[Kayteg1]

Would you read previous weight topics, you would find that the "paper weight ratings" are taxable ratings, having very loose connection with actual truck capabilities.
Your rear tires (the weakest point) have 7280 lb carrying capacity. Actual weight 3040 gives you 4240lb you can put on your rear axle.
Now COG comes to mind. When each camper will have specific data, roughly you can assume that
-12' camper will put 110% of its weight on rear axle with 8' bed
-10' camper will do 90-100%
-8' camper will do 70-90%
Front axle overload with TC is never an issue.

[d3500ram]

Prevost97 wrote:
...This TC stuff has a very steep early learning curve!...

If members here in the TC forum had a nickle every time that was said.... (LOL.)

It can be frustrating especially when it come to existing equipment and camper expectations... but enjoy the research. Embrace it and be willing to accept things that might not allow for full expectations.

Unfortunately these vehicles called "pick-up" trucks are evolving to meet consumer desires. One of those downfalls is the "wuss-ification" for buyers who want comfort over work and hauling ability (I am not referring to you about that comment of the Cadillac-ing of trucks.) Can a camper be found to fit your needs? Absolutely, but it can be a rude awakening as you have noticed.

Has anyone mentioned truck camper magazine yet? Check it out... there is a wealth of info there for the reading.

[d3500ram]

Prevost97 wrote:
Hello all,

I am an experienced, long term class A owner. I would like to get myself a truck camper for occasional use, probably never more than a week at a time, and by myself 99% of the time...the wife only travels in the class A! I am imagining a pop-up type camper, for easier access to off-road locations, old-time/bluegrass music festivals, and etc. We live in southern Arkansas, and I can't ever imagine wanting to use the little camper for cold weather camping (below 32F is very cold for us southerners!).

....

For a lot of the reasons you state, would you consider a pop-up camper more seriously over the hardside? I think that it will be the most feasible on your existing truck. Granted, the misconception that pop-ups are light is true, but the lower profile (and generally narrower) can provide for better handling over a taller hardside. The weight of a pop-up can add up though.

I have had both pop-up and hard side. I like the hard side for the winter camping in my region. But I miss the PU's for the summer (I really need both depending on my season...LOL)

Northstar, hallmark, Outfitter make some really nice PU's with all the comforts of a Hardside.

[d3500ram]

@OP: If you really want to find out what payload of your truck is, then take off the tailgate, fill it full of diesel and go to the CAT Scales (or perhaps a local dump.) Get out of the truck and get a total as well as F/R readings. This will provide a good staring point on numbers... but it will not change the fact that, as many have mentioned, that coils are not the best for camper unless you find a more minimalist TC.

Can it be done with coils? well, perhaps, but at what cost for still having a 2500.

Prevost97 wrote:
OK guys, I have another question. My truck has a CVWR of 10,000 lbs. My axle weight ratings (5.5 K front, 6K rear) and tire weight ratings (5K lbs per tire at 80PSI) are all good.

But, I found something today called the "2016 Consumer Information on: Cargo Weight Rating and Center of Gravity for 1016 Ram Trucks". It is easily googled. From what I can tell, this is required information that the federal government gathers every year from manufacturers of trucks that can accommodate slide in campers.

Now for the screwy part; for my truck, with a "payload" of 3300 lbs., crew cab, 4X4, 6.4 Hemi engine, and club seats, the listed maximum "Cargo Weght Rating (CGR) is a measly 2121.7 lbs!! The "CGR" is defined as "the cargo capacity, in lbs., excluding the weight of occupants in the cab of the vehicle".

For comparison, the 2016 Ram 3500 with the otherwise exact same configuration has a CVWR of 10800 lbs., with a "CWR" of only 2810 lbs!! I didn't look it up, but this Ram 3500 must have at least a "Payload" of 4,000. lbs.

So, what gives? Are we all grossly overloaded, or is this CYA information to protect truck manufacturers from liability, that is generally hidden from consumer eyes?? It plainly states in the literature that dealers are required to have this information on hand, and continuously up to date. Suppose one is in an accident, does your insurance company use the manufacturer's "CWR", or the "Payload" to try to throw out your claim??

[Prevost97]

Thanks for the continued comments, advice, and suggestions, guys. This TC stuff has a very steep early learning curve!

My 2016 Ram 2500 HD has a factory sway bar in the rear end. It has 20X8 inch wheels, with 285/60/R20 tires, rated to 3640 lbs per tire, at 80 PSI. But, there is no doubt that I will be at the upper limit of things when written out on paper, with this Cirrus 800.

I weighed my truck tonight on a CAT scale at a nearby truck stop, with the tailgate off, chock full of gas, and my wife and I both in the truck. As expected, I am fairly heavy: Gross weight: 7220 lbs., Front axle 4180 lbs., and rear axle 3040 lbs. This leaves me with 2780 lbs of remaining "payload".

The dry weight of the Cirrus 800 was 2490 lbs as it left the factory. This included the battery, electric lifts, and all other accessories, but no water or propane. Base weight, without any add-ons/accessories was reportedly 1990 lbs.

It has a 26 gal. fresh water tank, and holds (1 ) 20 Lb propane tank. With a full tank of water, 20 lbs of propane, and an estimated 200 lbs of "stuff" spread between the camper and the back seat of the cab, I come up with a GVWR of 10,300 (Yikes!), but still considerably under maximum recommended front axle, rear axle, and tire weights. If this Cirrus is way over the stated dry weight with all options, I could end up at closer to a GVWR of 10,600 lbs or more, and nearer to my axle/tire weight limits. Yikes, again!

My wife says we should just never head out on a long trip with a tank full of water, just perhaps 3-5 gallons for possible "on the road" use. I don't ever see us doing much boon docking, with 99% of nights spent in small state and/or national parks, or music festivals with water, power, and a dump station within a few hundred yards in most places. She says there is no way that we will put 200 lbs of food, clothes, and "living stuff" in such a small camper, either. I say she is wrong.

I see that mbloof is rolling at what I would presume is about 1.5-2K lbs over GVWR. What about some of you other folks? Are you at or above recommended GVWR, but perhaps under rear axle and tire maximum recommended weights? Is there some unspoken "slightly over the GVWR percentage" that is within reason?!