TC Newbie with ?'s

[Prevost97]

Hello all,

I am an experienced, long term class A owner. I would like to get myself a truck camper for occasional use, probably never more than a week at a time, and by myself 99% of the time...the wife only travels in the class A! I am imagining a pop-up type camper, for easier access to off-road locations, old-time/bluegrass music festivals, and etc. We live in southern Arkansas, and I can't ever imagine wanting to use the little camper for cold weather camping (below 32F is very cold for us southerners!).

I have a paid for 2016 Ram crew cab 2500HD 4X4 with the 6.4L gas Hemi, but it has the shorter 6' 4" bed. Payload is 3300lbs. Since we have a 45' class A, I have no desire to get a larger truck or a very big/heavy TC. I pull this Ram 2500 behind our class A, as well. I had a little 23 ft. Jayco that I pulled several times last year, but I sold it last week, because I didn't like pulling it, and there were many places that I would like to have gone, but the Jayco couldn't.

From my research so far, I understand that I need to purchase and install some frame mount tie downs, and a set of turnbuckles, along with a rubber bed mat to protect my spray in bedliner. I won't need to remove the plastic rail protectors will I? I do know that if I go to pick up a camper, that I will need to leave the tailgate at home. I haven't researched how to remove my tailgate, but it shouldn't be too difficult...famous last words.

I think that I might like an indoor wet bath, but that markedly limits my possibilities, so I am undecided. The only campers that I can see within 250-400 miles of my home are some new Palomino and Northstar SC popups, but I would much rather buy used, to avoid the depreciation and sales tax double whammy.

Any suggestions, advice, etc? I browsed and scanned through 12 months worth of posts here today! :B

Thanks in advance!!

[d3500ram]

For my model year, the Ram 2500 and 3500 only had a few differences. One was the rear springs. I solved that with airbags and then adding a superspring to the rear. ~snip~

Very true... before DC (or whatever they call themselves now) used to make a decent 2500 series truck. Now with the rear coils (did'nt they learn from GMC/ Chevy in the early 70's with rear coils??) ..now the new 2500's are glorified "grocery getters" with a higher RAWR that can't haul a camper. At least if the OP's truck had leafs then there might be hope.

~snip~ The 2500 had 17 inch wheels. There are currently no tires available with more than 3200 pound load capacity. ~snip~

Biggest weakpoint of the 3G Dodge's are the 17's. But Nitto (and perhaps Toyo) do make a higher weight rating tire. There are a few Load Index= 126 with weight capacity of 3746# per tire, but I have found no credible evidence of stock wheel capacity rating.

@OP, the new coil-consumer-comfy 2500 trucks might be OK for moderate hauling and towing, there are limitations for in-bed hauling, a la TC. The coils rears are a limiting factor... but you will have a decent unladed ride for getting tomatoes from the local market. The 3500's (or any other model with leafs) do ride rougher (uhm, like a truck) without a load... but it is a truck designed to haul loads... and 3500 leafers with a TC in the bed can ride very comfortably.

You might need to look for a minimalist, lightweight camper to fit within your trucks limitations.

I know that the 2500 coilers have come a long way, but some of the old tymers here might remember member Don Curley (RIP) who put a Hallmark (Outfitter?) on his 2500 with coils. Albeit, his was a Power Wagon, but if you remember the poor handling on that setup that he really forced the dealer to take the truck back because he expressly told them he wanted a truck for a pop-up camper. He eventually set up a real nice 3500 SB to haul it around.

Bottom line: if you want to haul a camper, get a 3500 (or a 2500 leafer that has potential.) If you want a comfortable riding car that looks like a pick-up truck then get a 2500 or a 150.

Not trying to be harsh, just pointing out facts without beating around the bush. DYODD

[mbloof]

Prevost97 wrote:

zcookiemonstar wrote:
You are opening a can of worms with those questions. You may want to start a new thread. I think it is one of the favorite "discussion" topics on this site.

Oh no! Not a can of worms! I did a search, and only found one post, in one thread. Guess I need to alter my search somehow...

Indeed it is. While last I recall 1 TON = 2000 pounds, many of us (myself included) ought to be hauling our gear around with 2T (two ton) trucks or larger (2.5T-3T?).

A hotly discussed and debated topic that never seems to go away.


(PS: I'm rolling over 12000LBS with a F250 series truck)

[JimK-NY]

For my model year, the Ram 2500 and 3500 only had a few differences. One was the rear springs. I solved that with airbags and then adding a superspring to the rear. The second difference was wheels and tires. As I explained before that was a big issue. The 2500 had 17 inch wheels. There are currently no tires available with more than 3200 pound load capacity. In addition to springs and wheels/tires, you need to consider adding high performance shocks. You might also want to consider a sway bar. I have not added one, but some others find they help. It is something to consider after the other upgrades.

I have never heard of any issues with insurance nor with law enforcement.

[Prevost97]

zcookiemonstar wrote:
You are opening a can of worms with those questions. You may want to start a new thread. I think it is one of the favorite "discussion" topics on this site.

Oh no! Not a can of worms! I did a search, and only found one post, in one thread. Guess I need to alter my search somehow...

[zcookiemonstar]

You are opening a can of worms with those questions. You may want to start a new thread. I think it is one of the favorite "discussion" topics on this site.

[Prevost97]

OK guys, I have another question. My truck has a CVWR of 10,000 lbs. My axle weight ratings (5.5 K front, 6K rear) and tire weight ratings (5K lbs per tire at 80PSI) are all good.

But, I found something today called the "2016 Consumer Information on: Cargo Weight Rating and Center of Gravity for 1016 Ram Trucks". It is easily googled. From what I can tell, this is required information that the federal government gathers every year from manufacturers of trucks that can accommodate slide in campers.

Now for the screwy part; for my truck, with a "payload" of 3300 lbs., crew cab, 4X4, 6.4 Hemi engine, and club seats, the listed maximum "Cargo Weght Rating (CGR) is a measly 2121.7 lbs!! The "CGR" is defined as "the cargo capacity, in lbs., excluding the weight of occupants in the cab of the vehicle".

For comparison, the 2016 Ram 3500 with the otherwise exact same configuration has a CVWR of 10800 lbs., with a "CWR" of only 2810 lbs!! I didn't look it up, but this Ram 3500 must have at least a "Payload" of 4,000. lbs.

So, what gives? Are we all grossly overloaded, or is this CYA information to protect truck manufacturers from liability, that is generally hidden from consumer eyes?? It plainly states in the literature that dealers are required to have this information on hand, and continuously up to date. Suppose one is in an accident, does your insurance company use the manufacturer's "CWR", or the "Payload" to try to throw out your claim??

[Grit_dog]

Oops so saw you found one. Cirrus are some of the nicest looking campers out there imo. Good find!

[Grit_dog]

Yes I’d stick with a lighter camper due to the coil springs on your truck. You can add airbags and a heavy sway bar and haul whatever your tires like but I’ll let others chime in about high CoG loads and coils.
As far as finding one, TCs are much more popular out west. I’d horn in on a few models and brands and take a drive with a fistful of cash since I think you mentioned used.

Have fun good luck in your search.

[Kayteg1]

Congratulations on good camper find.
Just bear in mind that modifying your existing truck opens whole chain of possible expenses and some owners, when they look back notice that better decision might be instead of spending $6000 on wheels modification, just sell the truck and buy dually.
I understand that you use your 2500 truck as toad, but then I would expect that you might change your camping habit having TC or bus to drive and not necessary take them both.
In my Prevost storage bay I was able to fit older Honda Trail bike and that made good vehicle for exploring sites.
Than bicycles for rest of the family.
Lately electric scooters come to really good performances.

[Prevost97]

SidecarFlip wrote:
The RAM 2500's with the coil springs in the back don't make the best TC haulers because of the coil springs themselves (you really need leaves not coils), but more important is the spacing of the coils. They are too close to the centerline of the truck, IOW, the frame rails are too close together over the rear axle. Not a good thing with a TC.

Hey Flip, I have enjoyed reading many of your posts here on the forum over the last couple of days. Thanks for chiming in on my thread!

In a perfect world, I would go out and buy the exact truck that I should have, but I will see how things go. As a last resort, I can always trade my 2500 on a short bed 3500 for this camper, but my truck is very nice, as well as totally paid off. I would much rather do some mods, if needed, and if they are not too expensive to do.

I am interested in any recommendations for possible upgrades to the spring/suspension system! 🙂

[Prevost97]

Wow, thanks for all the replies! This a great forum!

My very efficient and astute wife snooped around and found a 2016 Cirrus 800 that has been used only 1 time, by an elderly couple who purchased it new. They are in a financial bind and must move into assisted living ASAP. I am going to pick it up it for a very low price, just what they owe as payoff on their original loan. This camper wasn't really on my radar, but I can't go wrong, simply because of the price.

I have visited with my bus mechanic, who also does work on other RV's and automobiles. He assures me that if I need any suspension mods, new springs, shocks, etc., that he can take care of it for me. With all new TorkLift tie downs, FastGun turnbuckles, and a bed mat, I will still be several thousand dollars below what I had anticipated spending.

I will keep you all posted regarding any necessary truck modifications, as well as some photos as soon as I can. My mechanic is going to install my tie downs tomorrow afternoon, and I hope to pick up the little camper Wednesday or Thursday. I am sure that I will have some other questions, as well.

[JimK-NY]

Just a couple of comments that might help. First trying to buy used is likely to be difficult. There are tons of used trailers available but very few truck campers.

There is a world of difference in comfort between a small popup camper and a medium or larger sized hard sided camper. I have found several conveniences that are very important: a decent wet bath/toilet, a north-south queen sized bed, a generator and AC when needed. Since your wife has expressed interest I would not compromise on any of these.

Weight is going to be a big issue. You can help by eliminating any campers with slideouts. Even so the base wet weight is likely to be at least 2500-3000 or more pounds. On top of wet weight, we added two people, a generator, 2 solar panels, oversized batteries, tools, clothing, food, cooking gear. That bumped up the weight by more than 2000 pounds!

You are going to consider modifications for your truck. Hold downs are the least of the expense. I added supersprings to bring up the load handling. I don't know what you can do with rear coils. Yuck! You will need to upgrade shocks to Ranchos or equivalent. Tires are another serious consideration. My Dodge Ram came with 17 inch wheels. The highest load rating tire available is limited to 3200 pounds. After years and tens of thousands of miles driving overloaded, I bought wheels and 19.5 inch commercial tires from Rickson for close to $4K.

Finally, if you buy new, I highly recommend Northstar. Their campers are well built, well designed, tried and true. They don't have slides and are typically also a bit narrower than the maximum 8 feet.

[SidecarFlip]

The RAM 2500's with the coil springs in the back don't make the best TC haulers because of the coil springs themselves (you really need leaves not coils), but more important is the spacing of the coils. They are too close to the centerline of the truck, IOW, the frame rails are too close together over the rear axle. Not a good thing with a TC.

[Prevost97]

Hey Woodhog, Thanks for the suggestion! My truck has coil springs, so I will research what my options might be. My main reason for not buying a 1 ton truck are that my 2500 is almost brand new, has only 12 K miles on it, and I have the Blue Ox, mega high dollar tow system installed on it for pulling behind our bus.

[woodhog]

You mention Northstar Laredo...
Here is a very useful site with a lot of info on that camper.

Mellow Mike's Laredo

He also has it on a Dodge HD Short Box (Diesel in his case), at one time you
could change a 2500 Dodge HD into a 3500 by just adding the overload
springs, that was the only difference, I don't know about your model year, but the trucks would be very similar.

You may already have a one ton truck (almost), plus the added payload
with your gas engine.

He will also answer questions most times...