The China-Bomb debate Put to rest

[4X4Dodger]

Almost every week or more a thread appears with someone with a tire question. And just as predictably the China Bomb experts come out and start decrying all Chinese made tires.

Then usually they recommend MAXXIS tires. Maxxis are held in almost religious high regard by some here and they claim are NOT made in China.

This is usually followed by several others who also recommend Maxxis.

I personally have no doubt that Maxxis are good tires. As are Goodyears, Kumho, Cooper and many other brands. But I don't beleive they are SIGNIFICANTLY better than any other.

I have tried in many of these posts to bring some perspective on Chinese manufacturing which I know quite well from my professional life. I also try to bring some facts to bear on the subject.

So in an effort to arm myself with more facts I was doing some research on Tire Manufacturing in China and came across a very interesting article in a Tire Industry Publication Called Tire Review.

The chart below appears in that article clearly showing that MAXXIS is part of one of the largest tire manufacturers in China. Note also the inclusion of several western tire manufacturers who also manufacture in China.

From Tire Review Magazine 10/1/2015 David Shaw



Now for a little context: The article I cite was written about the tire Industry IN China ie it centered mostly on the Chinese Domestic market. It did cover the issue of exports also. But it's main focus was the Domestic Chinese market.

The article goes on to explain that there is currently a shakedown taking place in the Chinese Tire industry with some new US tariffs being applied (due to alleged Dumping) and new regulations on the industry by the Government of China. Here is a quote:

"U.S. duties aside, probably the biggest factor in the Chinese tire industry crisis is the slew of new legislation being issued by the Chinese government and managed through the CRIA. China is set to become the most-heavily regulated country in the world for tire manufacturing."

and...According to the article China dominates the GLOBAL market for tires.

I hope this takes a few steps towards normalizing the debate on this site about China Bombs and how great Maxxis are.

The FACT is that some great tires are made by many companies in China, by Chinese, American and European companies.

So please lets just stop the China Bomb rants and stop encouraging folks who have tire questions to replace all the tires that came on their new trailers. It's a waste of money and there is no evidence of any kind that it is either necessary or desirable.

As you can see those revered MAXXIS are owned by a Chinese firm and are manufactured in China as well as some other Asian countries.

[aguablanco]

2oldman wrote:
I wonder if some choose (and vigorously defend that choice) LT tires is that they like to tow faster than 65mph.

And are willing to spend dearly to do it.

I have 82 MPH rated St tires and I rarely go over 65 MPH. I consider the extra 17 MPH as a safety factor. Who, in their right mind, would run any equipment at the absolute high end of performance. If I had two 2500# axles on my trailer, that was 5000# wet I would consider it overloaded. It isn't always a speed factor, it can also be a safety margin.
RichH

[2oldman]

I wonder if some choose (and vigorously defend that choice) LT tires is that they like to tow faster than 65mph.

And are willing to spend dearly to do it.

[Billinwoodland]

Huntindog wrote:




You have been silent for over a month now.. Probably been busy... Have you been reading more of the regs during this time?

What you mean in your last post is, it is not relavent to my point of view, so there is no reason to post it.
Sort of like someone that deletes a whole bunch of emails as they did not see any reason to keep them.

Game , Set, Match.:B

There is a closed thread on the Good Sam category that may have run him off the site. His call sign has been deleted last I checked.

[coolbreeze01]

Good 1 :B

[aguablanco]

LinkIn order to help this discussion along here is a link to Roger Marble's blog on tires.
RichH

[Huntindog]

4X4Dodger wrote:

Huntindog wrote:

4X4Dodger wrote:

Irelands child wrote:
I don't believe that I have ever seen more truths, half truths and downright incorrect information in any thread on any forum as these 10 pages.

Run what makes you all warm and fuzzy. I like LTs, the guy or two above STs. If your choice is one or the other and that's what you believe, do it but beating this subject day after day with little or no real valid information but hearsay, gut feel or ?? is just a waste of time

If you had read this thread you would have noticed the several posts in which I copied data directly from the NHTSA, the Tire Industry Media and the industry itself.

None of that was hearsay, gut feel or anecsotal.

There is a big difference in believing something just because you "Want" to believe it and beleiving something based on facts. People used to beleive the earth was flat and that the Sun revolved around it. That did not make it a fact.

Yes you did post some stuff. As I told you then, it is incomplete.
IE: you found what you were looking for, and then stopped looking.

Anyone that attempts to read the entire regs better have some time on their hands. It seems that none of the info is in one place. You start reading one page and that page refers you to other subsections which in turn refer you to more subsections etc...
This is not the first time that someone has posted just "part" of the regs.

At one time it was easy to refute all of this as Senior GNC had researched all of it and posted the supporting links. Alas they no longer work as the website has been redone. And nobody has had the time to wade thru it all again to update it.

If I was going to quote some text from Winston Churchills 6 volume History of WWII regarding his correspondence with Roosevelt I wouldnt bother to Post the entire 6 volumes. The same is true here. I posted what was most immediately relevant to this subject. there are reams of unrelated information in the NHTSA Rule CFR49 that has nothing to do with this topic. And thus no reason to post it.

You have been silent for over a month now.. Probably been busy... Have you been reading more of the regs during this time?

What you mean in your last post is, it is not relavent to my point of view, so there is no reason to post it.
Sort of like someone that deletes a whole bunch of emails as they did not see any reason to keep them.

Game , Set, Match.:B

[aguablanco]

There is a fellow, Roger Marble, who is a retired tire engineer and he has a great blog about trailer tires. It is extremely well researched and written. I suggest everyone,especially the "China bomb" proponents read it. I will follow this thread to see how this advice works out.
RichH

[4X4Dodger]

Huntindog wrote:

4X4Dodger wrote:

Irelands child wrote:
I don't believe that I have ever seen more truths, half truths and downright incorrect information in any thread on any forum as these 10 pages.

Run what makes you all warm and fuzzy. I like LTs, the guy or two above STs. If your choice is one or the other and that's what you believe, do it but beating this subject day after day with little or no real valid information but hearsay, gut feel or ?? is just a waste of time

If you had read this thread you would have noticed the several posts in which I copied data directly from the NHTSA, the Tire Industry Media and the industry itself.

None of that was hearsay, gut feel or anecsotal.

There is a big difference in believing something just because you "Want" to believe it and beleiving something based on facts. People used to beleive the earth was flat and that the Sun revolved around it. That did not make it a fact.

Yes you did post some stuff. As I told you then, it is incomplete.
IE: you found what you were looking for, and then stopped looking.

Anyone that attempts to read the entire regs better have some time on their hands. It seems that none of the info is in one place. You start reading one page and that page refers you to other subsections which in turn refer you to more subsections etc...
This is not the first time that someone has posted just "part" of the regs.

At one time it was easy to refute all of this as Senior GNC had researched all of it and posted the supporting links. Alas they no longer work as the website has been redone. And nobody has had the time to wade thru it all again to update it.

If I was going to quote some text from Winston Churchills 6 volume History of WWII regarding his correspondence with Roosevelt I wouldnt bother to Post the entire 6 volumes. The same is true here. I posted what was most immediately relevant to this subject. there are reams of unrelated information in the NHTSA Rule CFR49 that has nothing to do with this topic. And thus no reason to post it.

[2012Coleman]

None of that was hearsay, gut feel or anecsotal.

None of it was linked either - oh and did you mean anecdotal?

One can use Google to enforce any opinion you may have on any subject.

Face it - this is a subject that will never rest - 20 pages and climbing.

[Huntindog]

4X4Dodger wrote:

Irelands child wrote:
I don't believe that I have ever seen more truths, half truths and downright incorrect information in any thread on any forum as these 10 pages.

Run what makes you all warm and fuzzy. I like LTs, the guy or two above STs. If your choice is one or the other and that's what you believe, do it but beating this subject day after day with little or no real valid information but hearsay, gut feel or ?? is just a waste of time

If you had read this thread you would have noticed the several posts in which I copied data directly from the NHTSA, the Tire Industry Media and the industry itself.

None of that was hearsay, gut feel or anecsotal.

There is a big difference in believing something just because you "Want" to believe it and beleiving something based on facts. People used to beleive the earth was flat and that the Sun revolved around it. That did not make it a fact.

Yes you did post some stuff. As I told you then, it is incomplete.
IE: you found what you were looking for, and then stopped looking.

Anyone that attempts to read the entire regs better have some time on their hands. It seems that none of the info is in one place. You start reading one page and that page refers you to other subsections which in turn refer you to more subsections etc...
This is not the first time that someone has posted just "part" of the regs.

At one time it was easy to refute all of this as Senior GNC had researched all of it and posted the supporting links. Alas they no longer work as the website has been redone. And nobody has had the time to wade thru it all again to update it.

[gmw_photos]

Yabbut wrote:
....snip.....


There might be just enough food for thought here to get newbies and "ST-bomb" victims to seriously think about LT vs ST for their applications.

....snip.....

For many newbies, and people who believe marketing BS without question......

Something made you choose LTs despite the "STs are for trailers, LTs are for trucks" mantra.

...... who knows? This thread might ultimately help someone.

And therein lies the real value of forums like this. Having discussions that continue on for weeks opens the possibility that some folks will come away with the idea to dig a little deeper.

In my experience, that's what results in the best decisions. Lots of opinions, some facts, maybe some data and links to other informative sources.
Open discussion is good and I for one am glad the the mods seem to be taking a looser approach these days, and letting us ramble on.

When new folks come across a thread like this and see there is a lot of passion to the discussion, perhaps they will think, hey there really IS something to this subject.

[Yabbut]

Irelands child wrote:
I don't believe that I have ever seen more truths, half truths and downright incorrect information in any thread on any forum as these 10 pages.

Run what makes you all warm and fuzzy. I like LTs, the guy or two above STs. If your choice is one or the other and that's what you believe, do it but beating this subject day after day with little or no real valid information but hearsay, gut feel or ?? is just a waste of time

I agree, this thread (like its predecessors) is full of wild opinions and theories, so it's a waste of time for people who are looking for hard facts and data. But...

There might be just enough food for thought here to get newbies and "ST-bomb" victims to seriously think about LT vs ST for their applications.

For many newbies, and people who believe marketing BS without question, it's not apparent that there are any reasonable alternatives to STs. In my case, ****-laden tire threads (just like this one) gave me enough to chew on that I gathered enough information to make the move to LTs, probably forever.

Something made you choose LTs despite the "STs are for trailers, LTs are for trucks" mantra.

So... who knows? This thread might ultimately help someone.

[4X4Dodger]

Irelands child wrote:
I don't believe that I have ever seen more truths, half truths and downright incorrect information in any thread on any forum as these 10 pages.

Run what makes you all warm and fuzzy. I like LTs, the guy or two above STs. If your choice is one or the other and that's what you believe, do it but beating this subject day after day with little or no real valid information but hearsay, gut feel or ?? is just a waste of time

If you had read this thread you would have noticed the several posts in which I copied data directly from the NHTSA, the Tire Industry Media and the industry itself.

None of that was hearsay, gut feel or anecsotal.

There is a big difference in believing something just because you "Want" to believe it and beleiving something based on facts. People used to beleive the earth was flat and that the Sun revolved around it. That did not make it a fact.

[Irelands_child]

I don't believe that I have ever seen more truths, half truths and downright incorrect information in any thread on any forum as these 10 pages.

Run what makes you all warm and fuzzy. I like LTs, the guy or two above STs. If your choice is one or the other and that's what you believe, do it but beating this subject day after day with little or no real valid information but hearsay, gut feel or ?? is just a waste of time

[rbpru]

The one million figure comes from the RV industry. It only includes TTs and 5vers. It does not include horse, boat, utility, cargo and other types of trailers that use STs.

Just what percentage of all the trailer sold each year would you guess have LTs tires?

I would be very surprised if it was even 1% of the RV market and a very very small fraction of a percent of the total trailer market.

It certainly is correct that opinions are what keep this topic going. It is about as easy to resolve as who makes the best tow vehicle; Ford, Chevy, Dodge or the imports.

Personally I would not touch that discussion.