The China-Bomb debate Put to rest

[4X4Dodger]

Almost every week or more a thread appears with someone with a tire question. And just as predictably the China Bomb experts come out and start decrying all Chinese made tires.

Then usually they recommend MAXXIS tires. Maxxis are held in almost religious high regard by some here and they claim are NOT made in China.

This is usually followed by several others who also recommend Maxxis.

I personally have no doubt that Maxxis are good tires. As are Goodyears, Kumho, Cooper and many other brands. But I don't beleive they are SIGNIFICANTLY better than any other.

I have tried in many of these posts to bring some perspective on Chinese manufacturing which I know quite well from my professional life. I also try to bring some facts to bear on the subject.

So in an effort to arm myself with more facts I was doing some research on Tire Manufacturing in China and came across a very interesting article in a Tire Industry Publication Called Tire Review.

The chart below appears in that article clearly showing that MAXXIS is part of one of the largest tire manufacturers in China. Note also the inclusion of several western tire manufacturers who also manufacture in China.

From Tire Review Magazine 10/1/2015 David Shaw



Now for a little context: The article I cite was written about the tire Industry IN China ie it centered mostly on the Chinese Domestic market. It did cover the issue of exports also. But it's main focus was the Domestic Chinese market.

The article goes on to explain that there is currently a shakedown taking place in the Chinese Tire industry with some new US tariffs being applied (due to alleged Dumping) and new regulations on the industry by the Government of China. Here is a quote:

"U.S. duties aside, probably the biggest factor in the Chinese tire industry crisis is the slew of new legislation being issued by the Chinese government and managed through the CRIA. China is set to become the most-heavily regulated country in the world for tire manufacturing."

and...According to the article China dominates the GLOBAL market for tires.

I hope this takes a few steps towards normalizing the debate on this site about China Bombs and how great Maxxis are.

The FACT is that some great tires are made by many companies in China, by Chinese, American and European companies.

So please lets just stop the China Bomb rants and stop encouraging folks who have tire questions to replace all the tires that came on their new trailers. It's a waste of money and there is no evidence of any kind that it is either necessary or desirable.

As you can see those revered MAXXIS are owned by a Chinese firm and are manufactured in China as well as some other Asian countries.

[JIMNLIN]

rbpru wrote:
Hmmm, let's see, one million STs a year place in service on TTs; for at least the last three years. Perhaps a few thousand LTs in TT service for the same time period.

Gee, I wonder which will have more failure reports on the RV net?

Oh heck, it is just data and nobody pays attention to numbers anyway.

Where does your source of "perhaps a few thousand LTs" come from ??

I would say there are as many if not more non rv trailers on the road than TTs in a years time. Numbers of OEM ST or P or LT or all position tires on trailers is impossible to know.

Opinions is what keeps LT vs ST discussion alive......JMO.:)

[rbpru]

Hmmm, let's see, one million STs a year place in service on TTs; for at least the last three years. Perhaps a few thousand LTs in TT service for the same time period.

Gee, I wonder which will have more failure reports on the RV net?

Oh heck, it is just data and nobody pays attention to numbers anyway.

[pira114]

Well this settles it for me. I'm not using any tires on my trailer any more. Switching to tracks!

[4X4Dodger]

Still no takers from the LT Fans who claim LT's are intrinsically better tires than ST's and from the China Bombadiers to bring in an expert of THEIR choosing to this discussion...

I wonder why?

[4X4Dodger]

JIMNLIN wrote:

pira wrote:
Tires in both classes have failed prematurely for several reasons, an unknown percentage of them fail for unknown reasons.

I'm curious where your information that both classes have failed prematurely comes from.
Your saying LT and ST fail at the same rates....... which they do not.

Checking around the net in all the different rv/non rvtrailering forums"" we see very few LT tire failures when used in a trailer position..... at least anywhere near the ST tire failure rate even when we consider percentage of tires used in a trailer position.

Where do you expect to find anecdotal stories about ST TIRES? Yes on a Trailer Forum.

And Why do you NOT hear about LT tires failures on a TRAILER Forum? because those with ST tires outnumber the ones with LT's by a very large margin. Probably thousands of St tires to one LT.

There is plenty of good hard facts out there about LT tire failures. But it tends not to be "bunched" together in forums like this one.

If you want to get to the truth of anything you need to go to the source.

This information is out there and I have posted some of it in this Thread it's there for you to read and Google and delve into deeper.

And for the umpteenth time in this discussion: Tires, ALL tires are very dependable and rarely fail. But when they do fail it is almost always for underinflation or overloading...not country of origin or manufacturer....Source: NHTSA

[gmw_photos]

pira114 wrote:
The problem with this whole discussion is that we all are coming from a perspective of being correct. When, in fact, none of us can claim that all of our statements are indeed fact.

.....snip....

That's not an entirely correct description of how this discussion has evolved. "Some" of us are stating facts such as the differing standards to which the different tires are tested to.

Those are what we would describe as facts, which at least implies we are looking deeper into a subject than just making a simplistic statement such as ST are made for trailers, LT are made for trucks.

I go back to the basic statement again: you can run a ST on a trailer, but you cannot run it on a truck. However you can run a LT on a truck, or on a trailer. And that is fact, as supported by documentation from the trailer, axle, and tire companies.

[JIMNLIN]

pira wrote:
Tires in both classes have failed prematurely for several reasons, an unknown percentage of them fail for unknown reasons.

I'm curious where your information that both classes have failed prematurely comes from.
Your saying LT and ST fail at the same rates....... which they do not.

Checking around the net in all the different rv/non rvtrailering forums"" we see very few LT tire failures when used in a trailer position..... at least anywhere near the ST tire failure rate even when we consider percentage of tires used in a trailer position.

[dave54]

Huntindog wrote:
...

Were his lips moving when he said that? Typical salesman. He has a profit motive for everything he tells you.

I am not as cynical and pessimistic as you. I have known this man for over 30 years and he has a reputation as a fair and ethical businessman. He has stayed in business by being honest and trustworthy. I believe him over an anecdotal internet post written in an impulsive emotional state.

[rbpru]

Pira, well said.

[pira114]

The problem with this whole discussion is that we all are coming from a perspective of being correct. When, in fact, none of us can claim that all of our statements are indeed fact.

The facts are simply this. There are ST tires and LT tires. ST tires are made for the trailer application. LT tires are made for light truck applications, along with some of them designated as safe for trailer applications. Many tires are made in China. Many are not. Tires in both classes have failed prematurely for several reasons, an unknown percentage of them fail for unknown reasons. Tires in both classes have served people well past their life expectancy.

Other than that, the rest is opinion. There simply is no data to prove it one way or another

[4X4Dodger]

Huntindog wrote:

dave54 wrote:

rbpru wrote:
Let's see, on the one hand people buy STs because they are cheaper than LTs and they cannot see the value of spending more money for the LTs.

On the other hand, the tire folks make more profit selling the cheaper, far lower volume, STs over the LTs. They are perfectly willing to be sued by our litigious society.

Not exactly how capitalism usually works.

Not to mention the fact that not all tire makers make STs.

As I stated before, P tires do what they are designed to do, STs do what they are designed to do and LTs do what they are designed to do.

If you think you are going to exceed the ratings of the tire, do not blame the tire maker if it fails. It is easy enough to go with the tire YOU think will work. I am sure the TT dealer will retrofit almost any tire combo you wish to pay for.

There is no doubt that some folk feel "safer" with LTs. Likewise, millions of TT owners never give their STs a second thought.

My local tire dealer confesses his profit margin on LTs are higher than on STs. He will sell you what you want, but he advises customers to use ST on trailers, and he uses ST on his FW.

Were his lips moving when he said that? Typical salesman. He has a profit motive for everything he tells you.

Yours is a cynical and overbroad generalization. While it does exist it is equally true that many people in business take the Long view and treat customers with respect and actually sell them what they need and want...not what is just most profitable on THAT DAY but what may be MOST profitable in the long run by nurturing a return customer and good will.

Second your argument presupposes that ALL customer service people care about the Profit margin...they clearly do not.

And your statement presupposes that ALL customer service people are unethical or at least ethically questionable...

Also your statement assumes that ALL customer service people are being paid or motivated by sharing in an enlarged profit when in fact most tire salesmen I have dealt with are not paid by commission and only get bonuses paid on the stores overall sales. (questions I routinely ask)

None of your post's logical endpoints stand up and are unsupportable.

[coolbreeze01]

Eliminate the quotes. Nobody cares who or what you are quoting. You may or may not have some real information, just like the rest of us..........

[Huntindog]

dave54 wrote:

rbpru wrote:
Let's see, on the one hand people buy STs because they are cheaper than LTs and they cannot see the value of spending more money for the LTs.

On the other hand, the tire folks make more profit selling the cheaper, far lower volume, STs over the LTs. They are perfectly willing to be sued by our litigious society.

Not exactly how capitalism usually works.

Not to mention the fact that not all tire makers make STs.

As I stated before, P tires do what they are designed to do, STs do what they are designed to do and LTs do what they are designed to do.

If you think you are going to exceed the ratings of the tire, do not blame the tire maker if it fails. It is easy enough to go with the tire YOU think will work. I am sure the TT dealer will retrofit almost any tire combo you wish to pay for.

There is no doubt that some folk feel "safer" with LTs. Likewise, millions of TT owners never give their STs a second thought.

My local tire dealer confesses his profit margin on LTs are higher than on STs. He will sell you what you want, but he advises customers to use ST on trailers, and he uses ST on his FW.

Were his lips moving when he said that? Typical salesman. He has a profit motive for everything he tells you.

[Huntindog]

rbpru wrote:
Let's see, on the one hand people buy STs because they are cheaper than LTs and they cannot see the value of spending more money for the LTs.

On the other hand, the tire folks make more profit selling the cheaper, far lower volume, STs over the LTs. They are perfectly willing to be sued by our litigious society.The govt. testing standard such as they are is the defense that works well. And any tire that fails, they can claim that it was the owners fault, for not using the tire within it's stated limitations... Anyone that has had an ST tire up to 66 MPH is exceeding the stated limit. (most STs) Most attornys won't take such a case on contingency.


Not exactly how capitalism usually works.

Not to mention the fact that not all tire makers make STs.
True. it appears that some have higher standards than others.

As I stated before, P tires do what they are designed to do, STs do what they are designed to do and LTs do what they are designed to do.

If you think you are going to exceed the ratings of the tire, do not blame the tire maker if it fails. It is easy enough to go with the tire YOU think will work. I am sure the TT dealer will retrofit almost any tire combo you wish to pay for.

There is no doubt that some folk feel "safer" with LTs. Likewise, millions of TT owners never give their STs a second thought.
Perhaps some of them should... I mean, this conversation has you thinking about it.. If and when you decide that ST tires are not cutting it for you.... Now you know that there are alternatives.

[dave54]

rbpru wrote:
Let's see, on the one hand people buy STs because they are cheaper than LTs and they cannot see the value of spending more money for the LTs.

On the other hand, the tire folks make more profit selling the cheaper, far lower volume, STs over the LTs. They are perfectly willing to be sued by our litigious society.

Not exactly how capitalism usually works.

Not to mention the fact that not all tire makers make STs.

As I stated before, P tires do what they are designed to do, STs do what they are designed to do and LTs do what they are designed to do.

If you think you are going to exceed the ratings of the tire, do not blame the tire maker if it fails. It is easy enough to go with the tire YOU think will work. I am sure the TT dealer will retrofit almost any tire combo you wish to pay for.

There is no doubt that some folk feel "safer" with LTs. Likewise, millions of TT owners never give their STs a second thought.

My local tire dealer confesses his profit margin on LTs are higher than on STs. He will sell you what you want, but he advises customers to use ST on trailers, and he uses ST on his FW.