time for a diesel?

[noonenosthis1]

Hi all,

I've been thinking about switching from our 5er to a motorhome. I really really like our 5er (Forest River Flagstaff 2020 529RLKS uvw 9531). But really we are more, travel to a campground and hang out there. So now I am thinking of a new tow vehicle . I am wondering if it is time to consider a diesel. We don't camp more than once a month. So we are not going a lot. But we do live in California. If you want to go anywhere in California, you are going up over a hill or mountain. Right now we have a 2015 F350 6.2 srw crew cab 4x4. It gets the job done in the valley/flat but start up an incline! It will get us where we are going but it will take a while. Is there anything bigger in gas than our 350?

[MFL]

My Ford 6.2 gas does not need to scream, to pull my FW up a 7-10 percent grade. I've never needed more than 4K rpm, even double towing, up a 7% 3.5 mile climb, which includes lots of curves, and speeds of 35-55 mph. At 3-4K rpm, it is very smooth and quiet IMO anyway.

Maybe I'm more used to real screaming rpm, from years of riding crotch rockets? My current Yamaha FZ1 redlines at 11,500 rpm, and while it does have an exciting scream, it is very smooth running. First gear at redline about 90 mph. It has 5 more gears to go! Due to factory exhaust valve tuning, it will handle 40 mph in 6th gear nicely. Top speed 170+

The Ford 7.3 makes good HP and TQ, at lower rpm than the 6.2, and many other gas engines as well.

Jerry

[Lantley]

A screaming (hi Revving) engine. Does not produce a relaxing drive.
Don't get me wrong I understand that how the gas engine makes its power.
I still don't want to listen to it scream for the entire drive.
In time the noise wears me out....LOL

[ksss]

noonenosthis1 wrote:

JRscooby wrote:
Go up a 10 mile long grade at 60 MPH, takes you 10 minutes. Up the same grade at 30, takes 20 minutes. Now how much of your drive is steep enough to pull you down to 30? And the diesel will drop some speed too.
Bet if you really ran the numbers, in the course of a day you might save half hour, unless you are speeding in the diesel. Of course that does not account for the assault on manhood of somebody passing you.

Well, I'm not a biologist but I am a woman and I know that for sure after birthing 3 kids. I don't care if people pass me, I prefer that! It's those one lane roads and the 6.2 screaming that get to me. I don't like hearing an engine work like that and it gives me visions of something shooting through the hood.

That screaming of the engine is what gas engines need to do to make their power. All of them do it. Nothing is coming through the hood, diesels make their power at a much lower RPM. Some people can't stand that high RPM. Your options are deal with the high RPM or get a diesel.

[Grit_dog]

noonenosthis1 wrote:

JRscooby wrote:
Go up a 10 mile long grade at 60 MPH, takes you 10 minutes. Up the same grade at 30, takes 20 minutes. Now how much of your drive is steep enough to pull you down to 30? And the diesel will drop some speed too.
Bet if you really ran the numbers, in the course of a day you might save half hour, unless you are speeding in the diesel. Of course that does not account for the assault on manhood of somebody passing you.

Well, I'm not a biologist but I am a woman and I know that for sure after birthing 3 kids. I don't care if people pass me, I prefer that! It's those one lane roads and the 6.2 screaming that get to me. I don't like hearing an engine work like that and it gives me visions of something shooting through the hood.

Understood. Part of it is the “comfort” of the drive. Like buying a Caddy instead of a Kia.
But also take comfort in how durable those 6.2 Ford motors are. And being a 350 even though it’s a 2015 it got the heavier trans (the same one used behind the diesel, but the std 6.2 F250s switched to a lighter duty version of that trans in 2015 iirc, going forward until the 10speeds came out).
I’ve personally used a 2012 and 2015 for work, towing stuff that most (except for the jelly folks) would say “need a diesel.” And being company rigs, drove em like a rental.
Those engines are largely flawless, even working hard and higher than average duty cycles.
You don’t have to worry bout nothin coming thru the hood unless you accidentally punch a hole in the oil pan first!
Cheers

[Grit_dog]

JRscooby wrote:
Go up a 10 mile long grade at 60 MPH, takes you 10 minutes. Up the same grade at 30, takes 20 minutes. Now how much of your drive is steep enough to pull you down to 30? And the diesel will drop some speed too.
Bet if you really ran the numbers, in the course of a day you might save half hour, unless you are speeding in the diesel. Of course that does not account for the assault on manhood of somebody passing you.

And a smidge more than a smidge of diesel jealousy in this post…..
I mean, I get it. There’s a lot of people that can afford a lot more than I can. But I don’t find their “forums” and tell them how stupid their $250k super cars or private jets are….even though I secretly wish I had an extra few or few hundred million to p!ss away on whatever suits my fancy. I’m not even sore about it.
You may be happier if you quit outwardly lamenting in the general form of 3rd grade level insults and just keep living.
Or in other words, Lighten up Francis! Lol

[noonenosthis1]

JRscooby wrote:
Go up a 10 mile long grade at 60 MPH, takes you 10 minutes. Up the same grade at 30, takes 20 minutes. Now how much of your drive is steep enough to pull you down to 30? And the diesel will drop some speed too.
Bet if you really ran the numbers, in the course of a day you might save half hour, unless you are speeding in the diesel. Of course that does not account for the assault on manhood of somebody passing you.

Well, I'm not a biologist but I am a woman and I know that for sure after birthing 3 kids. I don't care if people pass me, I prefer that! It's those one lane roads and the 6.2 screaming that get to me. I don't like hearing an engine work like that and it gives me visions of something shooting through the hood.

[JRscooby]

Go up a 10 mile long grade at 60 MPH, takes you 10 minutes. Up the same grade at 30, takes 20 minutes. Now how much of your drive is steep enough to pull you down to 30? And the diesel will drop some speed too.
Bet if you really ran the numbers, in the course of a day you might save half hour, unless you are speeding in the diesel. Of course that does not account for the assault on manhood of somebody passing you.

[PA12DRVR]

Not sure where the Motorhome fits into the discussion of new / diesel pickup. In any case....I've used 2-3 diesels for a couple of TT's and a 5th wheel as well as the current F250 diesel for my non-RV towing. I'm not interested in being the 1st guy up the hill, but I do like to make it up the hill w/o seeing lots of flashing lights and warnings. So I'd recommend a diesel if you're getting a new tow rig.

That being said, routine maintenance is more expensive on a diesel and the infrequent "catastrophic" failure (e.g. injectors) is very expensive. All this would roll into what a couple others have suggested: if your current rig gets the job done (and is paid for), probably cheaper to keep it rather than chase a new vehicle.

[Grit_dog]

Golden_HVAC wrote:
I guess it actually depends on how many miles you go each year. Do you really want to pay for a new $50,000 truck to go up a hill 10 MPH faster with the 7.3L gas engine? Or stay with your current truck and take a extra 10 minutes on each trip?

As for the diesel engine option, while you will get a little more money when you trade it in 10 years, the difference is probably not the $10,000+ more you will spend to buy the truck this year. So if you drive a LOT of miles, a diesel can be a little less expensive for fuel, but not for oil changes, and other yearly maintenance, and especially insurance costs. So if the diesel is costing about $50 more a month to buy insurance, are you really saving money? And yes it will go about 10 MPH faster up those few miles of really steep hills. So you will save about 10 minutes on a 3 hour drive?

Personally, I think I would stay with the 6.2L that is probably already paid for!

I bought a brand new Bounder class A back in 1997. I put on about 45,000 miles in 16 years. If I had paid more for a diesel, I would have saved a little on fuel, been able to have a longer RV, but not saved on oil changes! I am very satisfied with my gas motorhome. It served me very well, and I even lived in it for about 8 years. When I took a cross country trip, twice, the fuel was expensive, but acceptable. I don't think a DP would have been less expensive to drive. However insurance was much lower cost, so a lot of savings there.

On my trip in 2005, I was estimating about $0.50 per mile to drive the RV, so I kept the trips as short as possible, but still see what I wanted to see!

Have a great time deciding what to do!

Fred.

Clearly Spoken from lack of experience with a large side of conjecture and possibly a smidge of diesel envy….
And fairly full of sheet.
PS, no one wants a 1997 Bounder now, gas or diesel, except maybe the motorhomeless.
So in that regard you may not have gotten more out of a diesel.
Especially if it would have come with the 6.5Turdbo GM/Detroit smoker.
Now if you had a 1997 OBS Powerstroke or 97 Dodge Cummins with only 45,000mi you’d probably poop yer pants at how much they’d be worth.
Historically ALL the GOOD light duty diesel pickups have maintained a significantly greater % on resale and yes, enough to offset the purchase price difference. Not debatable.
Those that don’t are not by design that they are a diesel but rather other factors that are under control of the owner. (Like lack of care, not buying or selling right, etc. same things that reduce roi on any/all vehicles.)

[wowens79]

The new Ford 7.3 has really hit a sweet spot for RVers. Now with the 7.3, it can easily handle loads up in the 15k lb load. Mine is actually rated at 20k. Before the 7.3 over 10-12k lbs you really needed to look at a diesel.

With a diesel, short trips are horrible on the emmissions systems, and they don't get up to operating temps for the emissions to work properly, and those systems are expensive to repair.

The diesel is about $8-9k more expensive upfront. The old theory of getting that money back when selling is no longer true. If you run identical 2020 7.3 and 6.7 trucks through KBB, you will find the diesel is only worth about $5k more, so it looses half the cost of the diesel in 5 years.

TFL did a YouTube video of the 7.3 pulling 16k lbs up I-70 over the rockies, and it was able to maintain the speed limit of 65mph up the grade, and still had more power available to accelerate.

With the gasser you have about 700lbs more payload, my SRW f-350 has 4200lbs of payload

If towing real heavy loads, the diesel wins, but for the typical RVer the 7.3 is a great choice.

If you do uphill drag races towing 15k lbs, the diesel is the way to go, otherwise go with the 7.3.

[Golden_HVAC]

I guess it actually depends on how many miles you go each year. Do you really want to pay for a new $50,000 truck to go up a hill 10 MPH faster with the 7.3L gas engine? Or stay with your current truck and take a extra 10 minutes on each trip?

As for the diesel engine option, while you will get a little more money when you trade it in 10 years, the difference is probably not the $10,000+ more you will spend to buy the truck this year. So if you drive a LOT of miles, a diesel can be a little less expensive for fuel, but not for oil changes, and other yearly maintenance, and especially insurance costs. So if the diesel is costing about $50 more a month to buy insurance, are you really saving money? And yes it will go about 10 MPH faster up those few miles of really steep hills. So you will save about 10 minutes on a 3 hour drive?

Personally, I think I would stay with the 6.2L that is probably already paid for!

I bought a brand new Bounder class A back in 1997. I put on about 45,000 miles in 16 years. If I had paid more for a diesel, I would have saved a little on fuel, been able to have a longer RV, but not saved on oil changes! I am very satisfied with my gas motorhome. It served me very well, and I even lived in it for about 8 years. When I took a cross country trip, twice, the fuel was expensive, but acceptable. I don't think a DP would have been less expensive to drive. However insurance was much lower cost, so a lot of savings there.

On my trip in 2005, I was estimating about $0.50 per mile to drive the RV, so I kept the trips as short as possible, but still see what I wanted to see!

Have a great time deciding what to do!

Fred.

[valhalla360]

With gas engines, you need to let them build rpms to generate HP. HP is what determines how fast you can climb a hill. Torque determines if you will make it up the hill.

With the 10 speed transmission, rear diff ratio really doesn't matter unless you are pushing the truck to the limits. The transmission will just pick the gear suitable to get the overall ratio the engine wants.

Presumably you are running at around 11k lbs loaded. That's well within modern gas truck capabilities and tow haul uses engine braking pretty effectively with gas engines.

Of course if you are just trying to justify what you want....just buy the diesel.

[rhagfo]

gme3470 wrote:
We also are in CA and tow an 8000lb trailer around all the hills you mentioned. Our truck is a 2022 F350, 7.3l, 10spd, with a 4:30 differential. It is really a lot better than the 6.2l in our previous truck. In fact, we have no problem accelerating up those big hills even after getting slowed in traffic. Mileage around town is about 13 and towing on a level, no wind, freeway it's about 10.2. It really is as capable as one of our earlier diesels

Well 8,000# is not the same as 11,500# 5th wheel. To your point our 2001 Ram with a 5.9 CTD and 3.55 gears could accelerate uphill pulling a 13,000# 5er.
While the 7.3 Godzilla is a good engine part of the advantage is a 10 speed transmission and 4.30 gears.

[noonenosthis1]

enblethen wrote:
Ford engine comparison

Thanks!

[Grit_dog]

The new 7.3 10speed with 4.30s will smoke your old 6.2. But a diesel will walk both of them like a dog.
Do you want to keep speed compared to your 6.2 but still be tapped out on big grades and coasting down the other side? Or do you want to roll up hill with ease at half the rpm’s and more on tap if you want and cruise down the other side without using the fat pedal?

Personally I’d keep the ole 6.2 this year and wait for some sucker losing his ___ in a year or 2 if I didn’t NEED to upgrade or budget is a big consideration.
On the other hand, your old gasser will never be worth more than it is now, since prices are dropping in that category of trucks. Diesels have leveled out a bit too but nothing like the gas pigs.