Time to simplify -- fiver to TT. Do I need WD?

[DazedNConfused]

Currently have a 40ft 5th wheel that we put a fully season of camping into. Our first big trailer...and it helped us figure out the NEED to haves vs. the NICE to haves. Example...bath and a half is NICE..but we only NEED one bath. Dedicated bunkhouse for my kids is NICE, but they really only NEED a place to sleep. Tons of inside storage is NICE, but we find we're packing rolls of paper towels and such around our stuff so it doesn't move around while travelling (unit has a monster pantry!) because we don't fill it up.

I'm also tired of washing/cleaning 40ft of camper, having difficulty getting in and out of some tighter campsites, and having to deal with 5 storage tanks and three slides. Great if we're staying put for a while...but we are weekend warriors and do 4-day trips.

So I'm looking to downsize to an under 30' TT. I'd prefer 26' or less, bunks for the kids, and have taken a liking to units like the Rockwood Mini 2504s with a murphy bed that gives us a couch during the day, single slide, 26', etc. Plenty for the 4 day trips we do. Will miss the outside kitchen...but oh well.

I'm trying to figure out what is reasonable for my truck. It's 2012 F-250 diesel which is more than up for the task of any TT we're looking at, of course. Something would further simplify things further would be the novelty of not having to deal with a weight distributing hitch. My tow bar is of the beefy 2.5" variety. Any rules of thumb out there on how much I can realistically load on the back of the truck without WD? The novelty of dropping on the ball of the truck and using a drill to bring up the manual stabilizer jacks should take all of a few minutes and would be nice.

Dry hitch weight on the 2504S is 480lbs. So maybe I'll be around 600 when we're loaded up? GVWR of that trailer is 6,200 lbs, but based on the results from weighing my current setup, we won't use all of the payload capacity available in teh camper -- so expect to land around 5,500 - 5,750 lbs -- half the weight we town now with the fiver.

So what are the rules of thumb for towing with and without WD? Truck already has airbags, btw.

Thanks in advance.

[wmoses]

Make sure you test it on a 2-way road with 18-wheelers going by in both directions at around 70-75 mph with you at say 60-65. You might find that even as they approach to pass at your left rear you might feel a tug. If you are happy without sway control the good for you, but I am sure you will make the correct decision. Pulling a big 5th is not the same as pulling even a medium TT.

[DazedNConfused]

bretm151 wrote:

DazedNConfused wrote:
Just flipped through the manuals that came with my truck. There is mention of weight distribution...but no guidelines of when you'd use it -- like above a certain amount of trailer or tongue weight, type of trailer, etc. I do have the integrated Ford brake controller...which has integrated sway control. The blurb in the manual states that the sway control feature does not stop sway from happening, but that it will detect the beginning signs of sway and mitigate how much by applying brakes independently to each trailer wheel to keep it under control. Not quite sure how this plays into the overall subject...but thought it was noteworthy?

The receivers that Ford puts on their trucks require weight distribution after a certain point (it depends on a few things like diesel vs. gas and wheelbase). The easiest place to find it is on a sticker on the receiver. My 2012 F250 Short Bed Supercab's receiver was rated 600/6000 in weight carrying mode and 1250/12500 in weight distribution mode. There is a table on page 27 of this document that will tell you yours too, but be sure to check the footnotes...

Bret

This is great. Thank you. So it looks like Ford engineers recommend up to 850/8,500 lbs without the need for WD and up to 1,400/14,000 with. No specific mention of sway control - just max weights. This is what I was looking for. Seems like loading, weighing, and trying the new rig out would make sense before I spent money on a WD/SC hitch.

[bretm151]

DazedNConfused wrote:
Just flipped through the manuals that came with my truck. There is mention of weight distribution...but no guidelines of when you'd use it -- like above a certain amount of trailer or tongue weight, type of trailer, etc. I do have the integrated Ford brake controller...which has integrated sway control. The blurb in the manual states that the sway control feature does not stop sway from happening, but that it will detect the beginning signs of sway and mitigate how much by applying brakes independently to each trailer wheel to keep it under control. Not quite sure how this plays into the overall subject...but thought it was noteworthy?

The receivers that Ford puts on their trucks require weight distribution after a certain point (it depends on a few things like diesel vs. gas and wheelbase). The easiest place to find it is on a sticker on the receiver. My 2012 F250 Short Bed Supercab's receiver was rated 600/6000 in weight carrying mode and 1250/12500 in weight distribution mode. There is a table on page 27 of this document that will tell you yours too, but be sure to check the footnotes...

Bret

[wmoses]

I, for one, do care about what GM has done in the last 15 years but that is beside the point I was making.

IIRC, the OP was asking whether he needed a WDH, and FWIW I answered his post to the best of my knowledge. WD and sway are two different things even though many WDHs also take care of sway, and some folk may forget that in their zeal to try and help. And that's all right too.

Like you I think I am done.

[TomG2]

wmoses wrote:
Who gives a rats behind what GM has done in recent years?

That is what it comes down to and some people don't care what improvements have been made in fifteen years. I was just trying to point out that things change. Sometimes for the worse, sometimes for the better. Stating that a late model three quarter ton pickup always "needs" a WD hitch and sway control is really hanging onto the bone, if you ask me. Which you didn't, so I give up. By the way, that is what the OP was wondering about. Not what a half ton does or doesn't need.

[wmoses]

TomG2 wrote:
I have used my 2013 2500HD with no special hitch to tow the same trailer as my 2012 1500 with a couple of different WD hitch setups. Much better with the 2500HD. I suspect it is also much better than your fifteen year old model. We all get to spend or not spend our money as we want. However, you might want to try a test tow with a late model 2500HD before you state what it needs to make it a great tow vehicle. You might be surprised what GM has accomplished in the last fifteen years.

TomG2, you are like a dog with a bone aren't you?

The guy said that he prefers his towing with WDH and sway control and that he has experience with and without it, while using a 2500HD. Who gives a rats behind what GM has done in recent years? Does he not have the right to an opinion and an experience which he is sharing with others who might not have a late model 2500HD. He doesn't have to try anything, but say he did - what if he tried the late model 2500HD and still had the same preference? Are you going to tell him how he should feel and that he is wrong for having his opinion?

You have your preference and he has his. Lets all just move on. The OP is confused enough even after all the replies, and I am sure that by now he has realised that this thread has outlived its usefulness. At least that is how I see it.

[TomG2]

I have used my 2013 2500HD with no special hitch to tow the same trailer as my 2012 1500 with a couple of different WD hitch setups. Much better with the 2500HD. I suspect it is also much better than your fifteen year old model. We all get to spend or not spend our money as we want. However, you might want to try a test tow with a late model 2500HD before you state what it needs to make it a great tow vehicle. You might be surprised what GM has accomplished in the last fifteen years.

[Empty_Nest__Soo]

TomG2 wrote:
Wayne, you seem to like to compare apples to oranges (as many do on here).

Your earlier post quoted below showed that you went from a tow vehicle rated to tow 6,500 pounds to one rated at 10,000 pounds. I think that is what contributed to your safety and well being as much as a $80 sway bar. Comparing vehicles that are twelve or more years different in age doesn't prove much. I like the safety and security that my 2013 2500HD gives me, without any supplemental controls.

Here it is:

" snip.........Plus, the new 5.3 has a lot more HP and torque than the 6.0 in my old truck. Old truck was rated to tow 6500 pounds, new truck rated to tow 10,000. (In the real world, the limiting factor on the new truck seems to be hitch weight/carrying capacity, not tow capacity.) Wayne"

You are the only one trying to compare the 2500HD to the 1500.

In this thread, I spoke only of my experience with this TT and the 2500HD. The 2500HD, with and without sway control.

I took one trip in the 2500HD and this TT with WD hitch but no sway control.

I spent 8 years towing this TT with the 2500HD with both WD hitch and sway control. I found a very noticeable improvement with sway control over the first trip without.

If I had bought a new 2500, rather than the 1500, I would still choose to use both the WD hitch and the sway control. That is my choice.

If you choose not to use WD hitch and/or sway control, that’s your choice.

Wayne

[wmoses]

Very nice. Especially like the color of the truck! 🙂

[DazedNConfused]

Finally got pics to work. See above.

[AH64ID]

TomG2 wrote:


I can email a copy of the actual owner's manual. They "recommend" oil changes, child restraints, and a whole lot of things but not one mention of weight distributing hitches for a 2500HD towing up to 10,000+ pounds. Your imaginary 5,000 pound number is no where to be found. You seem to have a problem with me and GM on this matter. Argue with them, I just drive them and read their manuals.

I posted a GM link for you, not sure what else you need.

[DazedNConfused]

Just flipped through the manuals that came with my truck. There is mention of weight distribution...but no guidelines of when you'd use it -- like above a certain amount of trailer or tongue weight, type of trailer, etc. I do have the integrated Ford brake controller...which has integrated sway control. The blurb in the manual states that the sway control feature does not stop sway from happening, but that it will detect the beginning signs of sway and mitigate how much by applying brakes independently to each trailer wheel to keep it under control. Not quite sure how this plays into the overall subject...but thought it was noteworthy?

[spike99]

.

Not too sure about vehicle manuals or one's "comfort" default number. For me, I bought / installed many different hitches under my many Tow Vehicles - past and present. Think they where Hidden Hitch or Curtis hitch brand. Their documentation clearly stated "without WD hitch and WITH WD" numbers. Think it was 300/500 (or something like that). For better comfort, simply use 90% of both numbers. Thus, given extra buffer for double railways tracks and extra deep CG holes.

Bottom line.... What are the numbers on the hitch? If no numbers, assume you bought / installed your own Hidden or Curtis Class xx hitch for your specific make/model of vehicle. What are the numbers on their hitches? Would 90% of these numbers be more comfortable (for your own personal comfort)?

Works for me...

[TomG2]

ah64id wrote:

TomG2 wrote:

ah64id wrote:


snip...

TomG2 wrote:
GM does no "require" a WD hitch with the 2500HD under most conditions, and neither do I.

They may not "require" it, but they do recommend it above 5,000lbs.

I can email a copy of the actual owner's manual. They "recommend" oil changes, child restraints, and a whole lot of things but not one mention of weight distributing hitches for a 2500HD towing up to 10,000+ pounds. Your imaginary 5,000 pound number is no where to be found. You seem to have a problem with me and GM on this matter. Argue with them, I just drive them and read their manuals.