Towing in the real world. gas or diesel

Edd505 wrote:

marcsbigfoot20b27 wrote:


GM V10 gets 8 mpg?
What GM V10?

My error I was thinking of the GM 8.1 V8, Ford has the V10. I travel with a buddy has a class A V10 mileage sucks. I'll keep the oil burners, tow with what you want, you'll never convince me gas can compete.

I have both gas and diesel.
Funny because I googled GM v10 in case I had missed something and it seems there was a prototype GM v10 that was designed but shelved. Ls1 v 10
http://www.lsxmag.com/tech-stories/engine/urban-legend-verified-kc-maxx-rebuilding-gm-prototype-ls-v10/

marcsbigfoot20b27 wrote:


GM V10 gets 8 mpg?
What GM V10?

My error I was thinking of the GM 8.1 V8, Ford has the V10. I travel with a buddy has a class A V10 mileage sucks. I'll keep the oil burners, tow with what you want, you'll never convince me gas can compete.

crcr wrote:
We have an older diesel truck that we have kept maintained very well. We were considering moving up to a later model diesel truck, but they want too close to the cost of a new one for a few years old diesel truck. But we don't run our truck a lot of miles, so it's hard to justify a new truck.

So we considered a used gasser truck a few years old. But having towed our RV's with both gas and diesel now, we just don't want to go back to a gasser. Towing with a diesel is much more relaxing than with a gasser. So we have decided to just keep the older diesel truck.

To each his own ... YMMV ...

Yeah, it can make a difference. One factor in the consideration is how much one tows, on top of where they do it. For the person that covers a lot of distance and a lot of varied terrain on each trip, then diesel can be the more comfortable and relaxing choice. It is all the best use of a diesel engine. Especially the newer emissions laden diesels. They offer the least problems if they are run for hours on end and longer distances.

I am more of a "hands on" kind of driver, probably from all the decades as a commercial heavy truck operator. Even my wife likes having a more hands on approach to driving, and she has never been a commercial truck driver. She even puts her Cadillac in manual mode and select the shift points.

So the perceived disadvantages of a gasser doesn't really bother me. I am quite used to reading the terrain and manually selecting the shift points, which is why the modern automatic transmissions are neat. I like putting mine in manual mode and selecting shifts as I see fit. And I find that I can take advantage of the characteristics of the 6.0L gasser in my 3/4 ton. It pays to learn the power curve charts of the engine you are using. The L96 6.0 in my Chevy 2500 has 90% of its torque available at 2000 RPM. Learn the prime operating band of the engine and select the right gear, even with a automatic, to maximize efficiency in terms of both fuel economy and power. Very few pickups have any type of adaptive cruise control that has link to satellite images so that it can know the terrain of a road and make gear selections more precisely. That seem to be more in the arena of modern heavy trucks. So without that, the programming is just guessing when to make shifts as the pull increases or decreases and it may to match up well to the actual terrain situation.

For the person that prefers to drive, even when towing, like they are only operating a car and do not have the desire to have more control over things, then a diesel that has a good power band will indeed makes things simpler and easier. But you pay for that. If it is worth the expense, then it is not a bad thing.

valhalla360 wrote:

Edd505 wrote:

valhalla360 wrote:


Totally different use case.

You have it backwards. Diesels in heavy duty trucks are built to last 500k to 1 million miles because that's that customers demand. It's entirely possible to design a gas engine with similar longevity.

They justify the extra cost because they pull 50-100k miles per year on the truck and the fuel savings can cancel out the extra up front cost. If you are a typical RV'er putting 2-5k miles per year towing, you will never make up the difference.

Just how many gas do you see with 200, 300, 500K? Diesels just broke in at 100K and will out pull any gas. Not sure what you mean fuel savings, GM V10 gets about 8 mpg Ford V10 10mpg. Yes typical RVer does not put on the miles but the trade value of the diesel is more and the diesel has more torque.

Most gas engines hit 200k-250k, by then the truck is near the end of it's life. They could be built to last longer but there is no demand.

Big diesels are expected to last longer and people will pay for it.

Not familiar with a GM V10, so can't speak to that.

The resale is a little more but no where near enough to cover the original purchase price.

A guy over at FTE has a F350 DRW flat bed Super Duty that works as a hot shotter in the Houston area. He had +400k miles when the cam lobes started to wear and cause issues. His truck still had original transmission and rear end was still good and the overall truck was still in very good condition so he had the Ford dealer drop in a reman 6.2 long block.

We have an older diesel truck that we have kept maintained very well. We were considering moving up to a later model diesel truck, but they want too close to the cost of a new one for a few years old diesel truck. But we don't run our truck a lot of miles, so it's hard to justify a new truck.

So we considered a used gasser truck a few years old. But having towed our RV's with both gas and diesel now, we just don't want to go back to a gasser. Towing with a diesel is much more relaxing than with a gasser. So we have decided to just keep the older diesel truck.

To each his own ... YMMV ...

Yep. Quite a few CNG and LNG class 8 trucks running around. I see many of them every day, year round. And they are not just local haulers either. Many of them run all over the U.S., including mountain pulling. It isn't quite practical for my operation, based on my operational area, but if it were, I would jump on the CNG band wagon with a semi truck in a heartbeat for a number of reasons. A matter of economics. The numbers don't quite work, along with convenience of fueling locations, for my operation so I am still using diesel.

Edd505 wrote:
Simple question, how many class 8 80,000 GVW gas trucks do you see?

Ups has switched a lot of there fleet over to LNG. There are also quite a CNG trucks on the road as well.

Hybridhunter wrote:
I'll never understand why or how some folks think a clattering diesel sounds better at full rpm / full boost sounds better or "happier" than a healthy V8.

This part is completely understandable. "Full RPM" on a diesel is usually 2500 RPMs vs twice that on a gasser.

I know that my 6.2 running at 5000 RPMs isn't "hurting anything". But it is a much quieter, more relaxing ride in my diesel.

Look, it is one thing to tow 35K up a grade, or the up to 80K combined I typically pull up a grade. But most folks are not doing that sort of thing. Either a combination weight of 35k nor pulling up 6% or 7% grades longer than a short distance. So the argument is hyper inflated for the realities.

I have no problem with either diesel or gas. I can deal with my Detroit 12.7L diesel on a daily basis, but I also like my 6.0 V8 in my 2500 with a great Magnaflo 3.5" in and out straight thru muffler and that nice, mellow sound reminiscent of my old muscle car days. But I am also very practical. I get what is needed to get the job done. And I have nothing that calls for a diesel in my 3/4 ton for any towing needs. It tows, it plows snow, it hauls well over a ton in the back occasionally, it works off road on the property. A general all around rural living kind of pickup that still has a 13,500 tow rating and over 2500 lb payload capacity. Gas works just fine. Didn't even consider diesel when I got it almost 3 years ago and wouldn't do it any different. Not when I got this one, new off the lot, for roughly $8K lower price than a equivalent diesel version. I have better things to do with that $8K.

And on an fuel economy basis, diesel offers no real advantage to me either. Typically, I use
E85, which is going for about $1.62 a gallon in my area. Now it is true, the mpg sucks, at the roughly 11 mpg average I typically get with the stuff in my 3/4 ton. But at $2.98 for diesel in my area now, a diesel 3/4 ton would have to exceed an average (city, highway, hauling, etc) of 22 mpg to do better than just break even on a fuel cost per mile basis. While a diesel 3/4 ton would exceed that in highway only or with down hill or with a pretty strong tail wind, very few diesel 3/4 tons can average 22 mpg or more for all miles on a daily basis.

I only advocate that folks run the numbers, find out what they actually need, and do it in the most economical way possible. If that calls for diesel, then go for it. If it can be done with gasser, go for it.

"I'll never understand why or how some folks think a clattering diesel sounds better at full rpm"

Clatter??? I will give you a ride in mine some day towing a combined 35K up a 6% grade.