Trying to understand payload

[GalWithDawgs]

I have a travel trailer already but I want to buy a tow vehicle so before I go out and buy I want to understand thoroughly. I am starting with payload. I am looking at a 2007 Tundra 5.7L VV8 4 door 4 x 4 double cab. They claim the payload is 1,580. Am I to assume that from that 1,580 I must subtract the hitch weight of 720, my weight of 150, my dogs of 120, a full tank of gas, the receiver and ball, my ax, lipstick and anything else I might put in the truck? Am I right in this line of thinking? Am I missing something obvious that I should subtract?

Thank you for your help.

[GalWithDawgs]

Francesca Knowles wrote:

GalWithDawgs wrote:
Lets say I have loaded the truck so my payload is 1580. 1000 of that is because of the hitch and some of the trailer contents. That would mean I would have 580 pounds of me, the dogs and lipstick distributed evenly over two axles or four tires, right? So my gaw on the front axle might be 270 but my rear axle would be 1270. Right?

Depends on your hitch... now it's time to go to the following really helpful RV.net link and read all about weight distribution hitch systems.

The one thing you need to know going in is that these systems do NOT raise your payload capacity. But they do affect how the load is carried by the axles.

Okay I will go to the link now but before I go I thought it seemed kind of strange to maybe have 1270 on the GAW on the rear and 270 on the front. Kind of like my front tires might come off the ground and I wouldn't be able to steer or brake but then I figured the engine was up there and heavier and maybe that made up the balance. I am getting a bit confused but feel I am on the edge of understanding.

[GalWithDawgs]

Francesca Knowles wrote:

GalWithDawgs wrote:
Lets say I have loaded the truck so my payload is 1580. 1000 of that is because of the hitch and some of the trailer contents. That would mean I would have 580 pounds of me, the dogs and lipstick distributed evenly over two axles or four tires, right? So my gaw on the front axle might be 270 but my rear axle would be 1270. Right?

Depends on your hitch... now it's time to go to the following really helpful RV.net link and read all about weight distribution hitch systems.

The one thing you need to know going in is that these systems do NOT raise your payload capacity. But they do affect how the load is carried by the axles.

Oh boy. In 2004 I bought a 2004 Dodge Ram 2500 4x4 and it came with these two big metal rod type things and seems to me one end of those rods attached to the back end of the truck and the other two near the trailer hitch. Those were anti sway things, right?

[Francesca_Knowl]

GalWithDawgs wrote:
Lets say I have loaded the truck so my payload is 1580. 1000 of that is because of the hitch and some of the trailer contents. That would mean I would have 580 pounds of me, the dogs and lipstick distributed evenly over two axles or four tires, right? So my gaw on the front axle might be 270 but my rear axle would be 1270. Right?

Depends on your hitch... now it's time to go to the following really helpful RV.net link and read all about weight distribution hitch systems.

The one thing you need to know going in is that these systems do NOT raise your payload capacity. But they do affect how the load is carried by the axles.

[GalWithDawgs]

Thanks, Lanerd but I just positively have to understand. I looked up GAW and GAWR. Gaw would be like if I put 500 pounds of rocks in the back end of the truck. My gaw would be on the rear 500 or close to it because I am assuming a tiny bit might go to the front axle. My gawr would be what I am not suppose to exceed but how do you calculate that? I looked up for the Tundra and it said 3900/3800. I am assuming that the GAWR for the front is 3900 and the GAWR for the rear is 3800. The hitch weight would come into play there wouldn't it? Or would it? Surely it would. But what else? Oh, wait! Lets say I have loaded the truck so my payload is 1580. 1000 of that is because of the hitch and some of the trailer contents. That would mean I would have 580 pounds of me, the dogs and lipstick distributed evenly over two axles or four tires, right, because well, we are pretty much sitting in the middle of the truck give or take a bit? So my gaw on the front axle might be 270 but my rear axle would be 1270. Right?

[skipnchar]

You are absolutely correct. Your payload is the trucks GVWR with the ACTUAL weight of your truck subtracted from it. It includes EVERYTHING you put in the truck. Talking about ACTUAL payload not the brochure payload or even the door post payload. Put a gallon of milk in the truck and your AVAILABLE payload is reduced by approximately 8 lb. ACTUAL payload is the number you need to concern yourself with. Load up the truck with whatever you travel with, weigh it and subtract that weight from the GVWR and you get your ACTUAL payload.

[lanerd]

Yes, you do have to take into account the weight on the front and rear axles. However, typically, if you are within the payload limits, all other ratings will also be within limits. This is not 100%, but close to it.

While the manufacture's ratings are provided for a good reason, there's gotta be a little tolerance allowed.

With my older Tundra, the payload was also about the same as yours and I pulled a 5600 lb TT for several years and a couple of times with a 500 lb quad in the back of the truck. Was I over my payload??? You betcha! But nothing broke and I still have the Tundra today.

FYI, there were Ford F150's made with a Heavy Duty option that raised the payload to close to 3000 lbs. Search on "Skip and Char". He had one for years.

Ron

[GalWithDawgs]

I can't tell you all how much I appreciate this. I can't afford a mistake. I can't afford to get hurt or hurt someone else either. The only way I am going to be able to do this is to understand it all. I think I get most of the payload thing now. Have to weigh it. That is all there is to it. Now if it comes in where I like isn't there still a thing about the rear and front axles and how much weight they can support or some such thing. That seems important, too. What is that?

[gregrc75]

GalWithDawgs wrote:

Huntindog wrote:

GalWithDawgs wrote:

jimw606 wrote:
I took my truck to our local landfill( it's close) and they weighed it for free.
No printout.

Well, I haven't purchased the truck yet so that will be tough. However, you did give me a great idea. I bet Pioneer Gravel in Springs would weigh it when I go for a test drive. Imagine the sales person's surprise when we go there! So, lets say I get lucky and the pay load is 1580. That still seems close. I got rid of the awning on the trailer so I am a wee bit lighter there. I also got rid of that dumb heavy box in the storage. Heavy and useless it was. So if I can keep the payload at 1580 would the rest of the truck work for me?

The real payload will be less than advertised. Every single option on the truck over the base model will subtract from it. Leather seats=subtract, sound system=subtract, etc.

Help me understand this. The radio/cd player isn't listed as an option. It is standard. Would the presence of one really diminish payload? Or do you mean options like....well...leather would be one in this model I guess so I would expect that to change things. Truth in advertising comes to mine when I think "Base model pay load is 1,560 but yours is a lot less because we gave you a radio and a steering wheel." I get what you are saying partially though. Only way to know for sure is to weigh it.

When you go to the dealer and look at the truck, look in the door sill of the drivers door. There should be a sticker that states the payload of that actual truck as it left the toyota factory. The truck may have less payload if the previous owner or dealer installed anything after it left the factory. Chances are if it is something small like a DVD player or nav screen etc it will be a mere couple of pounds. So, that sticker will give you a good estimate but a scale will give you the exact weight. Something large like the bed box will add a good amount of weight but it sounds like you would remove it anyway like you stated.

Also, you said that after subtracting the tounge weight and everything else you had about 462 lbs of payload still available. After the hitch and receiver ball, even if that is another 100 lbs, you still are in the 300's. That sounds like quite a bit of surplus payload and that is a good thing. If I understand, it sounds like even if the payload sticker shows it is down towards 1300lbs it may still be with in limits. Seems like that Tundra is a good match.

[GalWithDawgs]

westend wrote:

GalWithDawgs wrote:
Boy-oh-boy. That payload is some important stuff, isn't it? I wonder if the Nissan Titan has a higher payload.

Well. A half-ton just isn't going to work out. All I can afford is a used truck and I just don't know if I can bring myself to buy a 3/4 ton used American made truck. Please don't jump on me. I've read the Consumer Reports and they just don't seem to have the reliability that Toyotas and Nissans do. At $16to $20K all I can get is probably someone's truck with 100,000+ miles on it. I'm uneasy with that.

I have no idea about what prices are in your neck of the woods but if you'like to give me $20K for my F-250 w/ 100K mi.+. I think I could even deliver, lol.

Consumer Reports can sometimes yield some good information but they aren't the be-all/end-all of information. If you're looking at the pages filled with small circles, half-filled, empty, etc, those are user submitted reports and can't be considered totally reliable.

The first thing I look for in a used vehicle is the owner. How is she/he motivated to sell and what type of maintainer is he. Are there any service records? Are they complete in a file from the day of first ownership. Does he start weeping when he hands you the keys?
IMO, durability is defined in the first 40,000 mi. of ownership and those detailed maintenance chores pay off during the life of the vehicle. I am currently keeping my rolling stock to 200K mi..

I'd suggest you look at some domestic 3/4 ton trucks to make your RV experience a pleasant one.

Thanks. I have a friend that says just as you do and almost word for word, too. I go back and look at the domestics and then I get all scared and run squealing away for a while.

[Francesca_Knowl]

GalWithDawgs wrote:
I think I am just a little dizzy thinking here. I don't tow the trailer often or far. When I do tow it, it goes twenty miles this way and maybe a 100 that way. Goes only a few times a year. I don't want to give up on the Tundra because I could really use it as a nice second vehicle in snow country. I got stuck in my all-wheel the other day and thought how nice a 4 x 4 truck would be.

Those kind of towing miles are nothing, really. It's not like you're looking to go on a 'round the country marathon tour, right? I think you're so close that the Tundra's well worth taking a good hard look at, especially since it seems to be the truck you want, and something that fits well into the 48 weeks of the year when you're NOT towing. With the right hitch setup including weight distribution, I'd bet the truck might do just fine. Like someone else here said, take it easy when going/towing.

I'm saying this as someone who's towing at probably 110% of my tug stated "capacity", and that's assuming I'm always telling the truth about the weight I'm hauling. 😉
My combination is much smaller than yours, but the physics are the same.

Thing is, I chose the trailer to go with the car instead of the other way around. I didn't want to be faced with the kind of situation you are, having to potentially buy a honkin' truck just to recreationally tow a trailer.

P.S.

Take it from me- removing the rear seat in that Toyota would probably get at least 75 pounds back, if not more...that's half a dog! :B

[westend]

GalWithDawgs wrote:
Boy-oh-boy. That payload is some important stuff, isn't it? I wonder if the Nissan Titan has a higher payload.

Well. A half-ton just isn't going to work out. All I can afford is a used truck and I just don't know if I can bring myself to buy a 3/4 ton used American made truck. Please don't jump on me. I've read the Consumer Reports and they just don't seem to have the reliability that Toyotas and Nissans do. At $16to $20K all I can get is probably someone's truck with 100,000+ miles on it. I'm uneasy with that.

I have no idea about what prices are in your neck of the woods but if you'like to give me $20K for my F-250 w/ 100K mi.+. I think I could even deliver, lol.

Consumer Reports can sometimes yield some good information but they aren't the be-all/end-all of information. If you're looking at the pages filled with small circles, half-filled, empty, etc, those are user submitted reports and can't be considered totally reliable.

The first thing I look for in a used vehicle is the owner. How is she/he motivated to sell and what type of maintainer is he. Are there any service records? Are they complete in a file from the day of first ownership. Does he start weeping when he hands you the keys?
IMO, durability is defined in the first 40,000 mi. of ownership and those detailed maintenance chores pay off during the life of the vehicle. I am currently keeping my rolling stock to 200K mi..

I'd suggest you look at some domestic 3/4 ton trucks to make your RV experience a pleasant one.

[GalWithDawgs]

Huntindog wrote:

GalWithDawgs wrote:

jimw606 wrote:
I took my truck to our local landfill( it's close) and they weighed it for free.
No printout.

Well, I haven't purchased the truck yet so that will be tough. However, you did give me a great idea. I bet Pioneer Gravel in Springs would weigh it when I go for a test drive. Imagine the sales person's surprise when we go there! So, lets say I get lucky and the pay load is 1580. That still seems close. I got rid of the awning on the trailer so I am a wee bit lighter there. I also got rid of that dumb heavy box in the storage. Heavy and useless it was. So if I can keep the payload at 1580 would the rest of the truck work for me?

The real payload will be less than advertised. Every single option on the truck over the base model will subtract from it. Leather seats=subtract, sound system=subtract, etc.

Help me understand this. The radio/cd player isn't listed as an option. It is standard. Would the presence of one really diminish payload? Or do you mean options like....well...leather would be one in this model I guess so I would expect that to change things. Carpeted floor mats are standard so I wouldn't expect those to alter payload as would perhaps the option of rubber mats. Truth in advertising comes to mind when I think "Base model pay load is 1,560 but yours is a lot less because we gave you a radio and a steering wheel." I get what you are saying partially though. It just seems to me the law would step in and regulate that. If they say it is 1,560 then it needs to be 1,560 with what they are calling standard items.

Only way to know for sure is to weigh it.

[gregrc75]

GalWithDawgs wrote:
Boy-oh-boy. That payload is some important stuff, isn't it? I wonder if the Nissan Titan has a higher payload.

Well. A half-ton just isn't going to work out. All I can afford is a used truck and I just don't know if I can bring myself to buy a 3/4 ton used American made truck. Please don't jump on me. I've read the Consumer Reports and they just don't seem to have the reliability that Toyotas and Nissans do. At $16to $20K all I can get is probably someone's truck with 100,000+ miles on it. I'm uneasy with that.

I have a 2012 Nissan Titan crew cab short bed with everything in it including moonroof and all the extra options that add weight. My payload is 1477 lbs weighed. Just thought I would share the payload. You can probably get more payload with a king cab instead of the crew cab but with 120 lbs of dogs like myself, I opted for the crew cab so they can have the back seat!

[RTrider]

In my opinion, most RV'rs, especially ones with 5'th wheels are at least 20% over their payload and they haul all over the country. another tactic for you is to load the trailer lightly on the front and heavey on the back, but not too much to cause twoing difficulties.

On my last rig, with a half ton Hemi RAM, I was about 20% over and had no issues at all, but I did install Timbren helper springs that worked really well. Better yet air bags, but they are much more expensive to buy and install.

If you know you are overweight a bit and drive accordingly, you could just go ahead and do it like most others out there.

That all being said, my current TV is more than I needed, but was presented to me at the same price of a 3/4 ton truck so I went for it.

The very best news on all this is that you realize there is an issue and are dealing with it.

[Huntindog]

GalWithDawgs wrote:

jimw606 wrote:
I took my truck to our local landfill( it's close) and they weighed it for free.
No printout.

Well, I haven't purchased the truck yet so that will be tough. However, you did give me a great idea. I bet Pioneer Gravel in Springs would weigh it when I go for a test drive. Imagine the sales person's surprise when we go there! So, lets say I get lucky and the pay load is 1580. That still seems close. I got rid of the awning on the trailer so I am a wee bit lighter there. I also got rid of that dumb heavy box in the storage. Heavy and useless it was. So if I can keep the payload at 1580 would the rest of the truck work for me?

The real payload will be less than advertised. Every single option on the truck over the base model will subtract from it. Leather seats=subtract, sound system=subtract, etc.