azwildcat99 wrote:
I just caught a lead on an 06 4x4 8 pass. cloth with the 8.1, but the yellow sticker lists payload at only 1980. Can that be right? I thought for sure they were all lighter than the newer models. Has anyone actually weighed their TV empty and found the real payload different than the yellow sticker indicates?
GREAT confusion on how the various ratings, weights (both listed
and actual), acronyms (GVWR, F/R-GAWR, MTWR, GCWR and a big ETC) are
not confusing at all...once you folks accept how it is done...and that
you folks are taking 'one' RATING out of context in reference to the
other ratings
It is a whole system and interplay or multiplexed. That is really the
only way the OEMs can do it...as the matrix is huge and even more
confusing
Here is how the whole ratings system (yes...a system with interdependency's...and note that is a plural)
howmuchcanitowKnow my TV the best and have most of the info to back it up and/or
show you folks how it works. Reference the ratings graphic above
for each number if you find it confusing
GMT400, 1996 GMC Suburban. Ordered it after placing several refundable
deposits all over the area...to have them call it is 'in'...then to
find all of them half tons....wrong color...2WD to loaded with everything
they could bolt on. SUV's were 'hot' and to 'die for' at that time
and hated getting caught in the midst of fashion statement crowd
driving SUV hysteria...that seemingly continues to this day
Bought it from a semi dealer/broker who sold 'cars' as a favor to
their customers. Real truck sales folks and knew their stuff both
for cars and trucks
Here is my door label listing GVWR FGAWR RGAWR and tire size
Notice the wrong/wacky GVWR of 7,900 vs the 8,600 above. This label
stuck next to the correct label above
My glove box door label listing all options ordered and delivered with
Here is a GMT800/2004 half ton Suburban door label to give an example
that the label lists the same types of info from year to year, era to era
So here goes my ratings info:
GMT400/1996 3/4 ton Suburban SLT (highest option package), 4x4, 7.4L,
2nd/3rd row seats, console, ceiling console, etc, etc
Reference above glove box label for ALL of the options on my Sub
and note the F60 option (snow plow prep package)...why I tongue-n-cheek
call mine a K3500 :B
GVWR.......8,600 lbs
FGAWR......4,250 lbs
RGAWR......6,000 lbs
MTWR......10,000 lbs
Curb.......5,250 lbs
GCWR......16,000 lbs
Actual.....7,xxx lbs (can't remember the exact number from the garden scales
My weight...180 lbs
So according to how most folks 'think' it works...taking the GVWR of
8,600 minus the curb of 5,250 = 3,350 lb payload or cargo capacity or
rating
But that is so wrong, as my Sub with me in it at the garden scales has
it weigh in around 7,200 lbs...so my 'true' or 'actual' cargo or
payload with me in it, the toolbox & misc stuff is 8,600 - 7,200 = 1,400 lbs
Or less than half of what they can 'advertise' using the curb
Here is my last Calif SMOG testing and certification. Note it says my
curb is 5,250 lb and is from the DMV's DB, that has *ALL* of the OEMs
supplied ratings and weights
I could NOT unbolt enough of the options to get my +7,200 lb Sub
down to the OEM listed 'curb'
Another point based on the above is the MTWR (Max Tow Weight Rating)
that folks take out of context all the time. Ditto advisers who like
wise take it out of context
The 'true' MTWR is to take the 16,000 GCWR - ~7,200 actual weight =
8,800 lbs
If you take my 16,000 lb GCWR - 5,250 curb = around 10,000 lb, which
is what the GM Brochures all advertise
BUT, that is still not correct, as I some times have other folks in
the Sub...and/or...luggage and a big ETC. So on those times my true
MTWR is less than the above 8,800 lb
Why always recommend going out and weigh it axle by axle to know where
they are in reference to 'their' true ratings.
Of course I'm biased, but for more than 5 passengers, I can't imagine a better match for the 9000-pound trailer than the "classic" Burb K2500 with the 8.1L and 4.10 axle. We've had ours for 11+ years now and have been thrilled with it all along the way. It's actually not a bad hauler, either, as I can get about 20 sheets of 4x8 plywood in it with the seats down and still close the tailgate.
Our Burb is rated for towing 12,000 pounds with a 150-pound driver and a full tank of gas. It has a 6000-pound rear axle and a payload of over 3000 pounds. True, the tranny is a 4-speed, but I've towed all the mountains of the Pacific Northwest and the Rockies and have never had a problem keeping all our stuff up to speed. As long as I keep it at 60 mph (in Tow-Haul mode) and I'm not going up anything steeper than a common overpass, it stays in overdrive and at a tad under 2100 RPM.
Interestingly, your situation is the opposite of ours. The number of passengers going along on our trips is reducing as our kids reach college age, and we're actually looking a 3500HD Diesels right now because DW would like to move to a fifth wheel when it's mainly just the two of us.
Shortly after we purchased our Burb, one of the concerns I had was that the 8.1L engine would be discontinued, so I was extremely glad I got it when we did. It's not a great commuter vehicle due to the horrible fuel mileage running cold, but for towing it's a very comfortable and powerful beast. Since it's been used largely for towing and vacationing, it also has only 72k miles on it, which may delay how soon we move over to the diesel pickup - unless we find someone who wants the Burb more than we do.
Our Burb is rated for towing 12,000 pounds with a 150-pound driver and a full tank of gas. It has a 6000-pound rear axle and a payload of over 3000 pounds. True, the tranny is a 4-speed, but I've towed all the mountains of the Pacific Northwest and the Rockies and have never had a problem keeping all our stuff up to speed. As long as I keep it at 60 mph (in Tow-Haul mode) and I'm not going up anything steeper than a common overpass, it stays in overdrive and at a tad under 2100 RPM.
Interestingly, your situation is the opposite of ours. The number of passengers going along on our trips is reducing as our kids reach college age, and we're actually looking a 3500HD Diesels right now because DW would like to move to a fifth wheel when it's mainly just the two of us.
Shortly after we purchased our Burb, one of the concerns I had was that the 8.1L engine would be discontinued, so I was extremely glad I got it when we did. It's not a great commuter vehicle due to the horrible fuel mileage running cold, but for towing it's a very comfortable and powerful beast. Since it's been used largely for towing and vacationing, it also has only 72k miles on it, which may delay how soon we move over to the diesel pickup - unless we find someone who wants the Burb more than we do.
>
You are in a similar position to where I was 2 years ago. Wife wanted the 3 rows of seats to replace our prior crew cab pickup, although far less capable than yours. An older Burb would have been a TV mainly, and newer would be a DD too.
In theory, the 6-spds are a huge game changer (and 8+ hitting the market now too). Despite having less engine torque, the gearing provides more wheel torque. The difference is having to downshift a gear or two to get it vs. the 8.1L and your diesel.
The reality is most people towing with the current gassers and 6-spds are cruising in 5th gear at 2000-2400rpm. Most hills can let the speed drop a little or downshift to 4th gear @ 3000rpm. That's better than prior times when they cruised at 2700rpm and dropped to 2nd gear at 4000rpm.
The 6.0L looks relatively weak compared to competitors gassers, even the half ton tops engines. But it is still strong. It pulls pretty hard over 3500rpm when you want to. It is darn near buulletproof, in production for about 15 years. It's no Duramax, but it does it's job very well. And GM has the highest % of gas sales in its HD trucks compared to Ford/Ram.
We put 21k miles in the first year on our 2011. Over 2600 miles non towing to Disney. 1k miles weekend wedding in TN. FE started at about 12mpg in my mixed commute, 15mpg on the Disney trip, up to 14mpg mixed commuting for my wife and 18mpg highway. I saw 20mpg over 200 miles on a day trip. One month shy of 2 years now, and only 34k miles. It's temporarily turned into a TV and all family vehicle for a little while.
Ride is about the same as my 2003 F-150. The kids and wife all pass out on trips. They only way they know we are towing is turning around to see it. It's easy to drive at or above ST trailer tire speeds, in 100* temps outside and 72* inside. With only 3 kids and 2nd row captain chairs, there is a lot of space for each person to keep the things to occupy their time 3-20 hour trips. With all the time we spend in it, we wanted all the conveniences and luxuries. It's not perfect; It just works. There are competitors with advantages in some areas, but not with the capability for RVing this thing has. If the receiver had 1200-1300 pound rating, I'd be a lot happier recommending it more universally as well as upgrading my own TT. Performance is underrating IMHO. It can whip my 6500-ish pound loaded TT around if I want to. I don't think another 2000-3000 would be a problem at all.
Based on your TT dry published weights and scaled weights, I don't have any problem recommending the 2008+ 3/4 ton Burb/Yuk XL to you. You will be right at the receiver rating as well as GCWR of 16k. But it will perform far better at that limit than any half ton SUV and pickup except a HD payload F-150 Ecoboost with not quite as harsh a ride and as much luxury as you'd like to purchase.
In theory, the 6-spds are a huge game changer (and 8+ hitting the market now too). Despite having less engine torque, the gearing provides more wheel torque. The difference is having to downshift a gear or two to get it vs. the 8.1L and your diesel.
The reality is most people towing with the current gassers and 6-spds are cruising in 5th gear at 2000-2400rpm. Most hills can let the speed drop a little or downshift to 4th gear @ 3000rpm. That's better than prior times when they cruised at 2700rpm and dropped to 2nd gear at 4000rpm.
The 6.0L looks relatively weak compared to competitors gassers, even the half ton tops engines. But it is still strong. It pulls pretty hard over 3500rpm when you want to. It is darn near buulletproof, in production for about 15 years. It's no Duramax, but it does it's job very well. And GM has the highest % of gas sales in its HD trucks compared to Ford/Ram.
We put 21k miles in the first year on our 2011. Over 2600 miles non towing to Disney. 1k miles weekend wedding in TN. FE started at about 12mpg in my mixed commute, 15mpg on the Disney trip, up to 14mpg mixed commuting for my wife and 18mpg highway. I saw 20mpg over 200 miles on a day trip. One month shy of 2 years now, and only 34k miles. It's temporarily turned into a TV and all family vehicle for a little while.
Ride is about the same as my 2003 F-150. The kids and wife all pass out on trips. They only way they know we are towing is turning around to see it. It's easy to drive at or above ST trailer tire speeds, in 100* temps outside and 72* inside. With only 3 kids and 2nd row captain chairs, there is a lot of space for each person to keep the things to occupy their time 3-20 hour trips. With all the time we spend in it, we wanted all the conveniences and luxuries. It's not perfect; It just works. There are competitors with advantages in some areas, but not with the capability for RVing this thing has. If the receiver had 1200-1300 pound rating, I'd be a lot happier recommending it more universally as well as upgrading my own TT. Performance is underrating IMHO. It can whip my 6500-ish pound loaded TT around if I want to. I don't think another 2000-3000 would be a problem at all.
Based on your TT dry published weights and scaled weights, I don't have any problem recommending the 2008+ 3/4 ton Burb/Yuk XL to you. You will be right at the receiver rating as well as GCWR of 16k. But it will perform far better at that limit than any half ton SUV and pickup except a HD payload F-150 Ecoboost with not quite as harsh a ride and as much luxury as you'd like to purchase.
