Ford's answers to the NHTSA 6.7 Investigation

NinerBikes wrote:
In a show of support, Volkswagen has announced that the HPFP and Injectors on their T3 Touaregs, from 2011 on, have a 10 year, 100,000 mile warranty for the drivetrain.

I received this email yesterday.

Dear Mr. XXXXXXXXXXX

Thank you for your contact to us.

The High Pressure Fuel Pump and the intake manifold in your Touareg is covered under the Powertrain Limited Warranty for ten years or 100,000 miles, whichever occurs first, from the in-service date of August 25, 2012, for manufacturer shortcomings in workmanship and materials.

I hope you are beginning to enjoy the unique driving experience your Touareg was built to provide. Should you need further assistance, our Customer CARE Center is available Monday through Friday 8 AM to 6 PM, local time, at (800) 822-8987 or by email through the “Contact Us” page of our website.

Sincerely,



Linda M.
Customer CARE Advocate


One can only hope that FoMoCo will come around also.

I would not hold your breath for Ford to ever do the right thing. This announcement publicly confirms what my neighbor, a warranty/recall engineer at VW, told me a couple of weeks ago...

Regards

In a show of support, Volkswagen has announced that the HPFP and Injectors on their T3 Touaregs, from 2011 on, have a 10 year, 100,000 mile warranty for the drivetrain.

I received this email yesterday.

Dear Mr. XXXXXXXXXXX

Thank you for your contact to us.

The High Pressure Fuel Pump and the intake manifold in your Touareg is covered under the Powertrain Limited Warranty for ten years or 100,000 miles, whichever occurs first, from the in-service date of August 25, 2012, for manufacturer shortcomings in workmanship and materials.

I hope you are beginning to enjoy the unique driving experience your Touareg was built to provide. Should you need further assistance, our Customer CARE Center is available Monday through Friday 8 AM to 6 PM, local time, at (800) 822-8987 or by email through the “Contact Us” page of our website.

Sincerely,



Linda M.
Customer CARE Advocate


One can only hope that FoMoCo will come around also.

Looks like the Borsch video ran into some copyright issues and went buh bye recently. :M

August and Sept has been brutal hot around here this year... I will not be surprised if a new rash of failed HPFP's start showing up on TDI club... maybe in some Ford Bulletin Boards too....

Grabs a biiiiig bucket of popcorn with butter and a Big Gulp, and gets ready.





Like clockwork, when the heat comes, regardless of year of common rail TDI, they start dropping like dead flys. August has been brutal!!!

Like a moth to a flame...


And for some pointed questions flying the manufacturers way on this debacle, pages 15,16, and 17 on this link get to the heart of the matter as discussed by the wise folks on this board and TDIclub, where think outside the box and real world experience trumps Bosch and VW engineers beliefs with the hard questions.

VW getting grilled, is Bosch next?


It is my belief that NHTSA needs to send this same letter to the nifty Engineers at FoMoCo, to see if their testing standards are up to snuff, as well as to Robert Bosch...

I can attest to CVD (chemical vapor deposited) diamond having problems with getting
liquids to 'film' on it's surface, but in the application on my work for thermal
management of silicone chips

We had a tough time getting it to film on CVD, but solved that and is patented
via the 3rd party working for my team. Know many chip houses use flooding and is
a huge problem with filming the surface

Also, whether CVD or DLC coating is plated with RF or Ion Beam dictates the
secondary grinding to get the required surface finish. I have zero
experience with DLC and never heard of it till this thread

Know more about CVD than Ion Beam and hazard a guess that they are similar in
material behavior. I do know that the vapor can be tailored to make whatever
you wish. Like a diamond coating that is an electrical insulator to metal like
conductor.

CVD also has a weakness in high vacuum and that then goes to ask if the cavitation
has any play with this Bosch application of DLC

Curious why Bosch chose to remove DLC from one surface and can only guess it has
to do with the filming issue (and boy are they off the mark there)

Yes....huge Hmmmmmmmmm over here too

Sometimes a clue come out of the left field.

Apparently ASTM's lubricating oil working group for PC 11 (future CK-4 oil) is working on a standard for a new adhesive wear test to measure metal-to-metal contact vs. the present abrasive test.


We know that Diamond Like Carbon coatings may have a problem "adhering" to oil.

Could it be that the DLC coating on both sides was the culprit --- that both surfaces repelled the diesel fuel circulated to lubricate it?

Hmmmmmm.

:R

NewsW wrote:
If there are no big rash of pump failures by Dec... should we consider this file to be ... solved by the new Czech pump?

See new Czech made / redesigned pump in this thread at end of pics.

http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=361597


Then the question... should owners of the older pump replace it themselves to avoid the problems?

Despite 3 revisions admitted by Bosch to NHTSA, there has been a new spate of 2012 VW TDI pumps failing on TDI club. Do not know where those models are being made, MotherLand or Czechville.

Here's a 2011, in Houston TX that just blew, despite B5 in the fuel for lubricity from day 1.
2011 JSW TDI Wagon on B5 grenades HPFP.

You never know when they'll blow and leave you with a $8500 repair.

If there are no big rash of pump failures by Dec... should we consider this file to be ... solved by the new Czech pump?

See new Czech made / redesigned pump in this thread at end of pics.

http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=361597


Then the question... should owners of the older pump replace it themselves to avoid the problems?

BenK wrote:

NewsW wrote:
Those of you out there with the CP 4 Pump... here is the latest twist:


http://forums.tdiclub.com/showpost.php?p=3907598&postcount=3840

Quote:
Originally Posted by storx View Post
I just recently installed a fuel pressure gauge in my car because I been wiring up my gauges for big turbo install... I noticed that under full boost at higher RPMs the gauge shows my inlet pressure to Bosch pump was dropping almost in half... I talked to dealership and according to there repair manual it's still within tolerance so I'm ordering a air dog unit pretty soon here...I have a 24valve cummins that suffered from IP failures from low fuel pressure so I'm not taking chances and just adding additional pump to assure solid pressure


Hmmmm... cavitation, if it occurred, could theoretically provoke a failure of the pump's HP section.

This is an interesting possibility....

Cavitation would mean many things, including lack of lubrication.

#1, lost lub at that spot
#2, molecules removed to create pitting. Over time flakes of varying sizes
#3, those molecules of material is now in suspension to then be pushed
into the down stream system

Note the removal of the coating from one part and not the other.

That can mean the DLC coated parts have different surface tension characteristics with diesel fuel.... or contaminants like water... or...

Such a key indication of the lack of understanding of both what they
are dealing with (root cause) and of the material(s)

I know that diamond is not easily 'wetted' (that best non-stick material
known to mankind thing). If it needs lube, that needs to have some
pretty high film strength rating.

Does this then say two like surfaces of not easily wetted material
was NOT getting enough lube?

That then points to one of my original premises that both diesel is
a poor lube and that the cam cavity is so poorly designed to have
stagnant areas NOT lubed and/or not flushed with new lube.

Yes, what does H2O do to all materials inside that poorly designed
cam cavity?

Summer is nearly over... and I am now sitting around waiting for the failure reports to come in for the next iteration of the analysis.

New thought based on this...wonder if the hot summer, summer fuel conditons,
and the condensation cycles of summer show up later in the summer?

An accumulated process(s)

H2O has microscopic bubbles of air. Does diesel? Those are the spots
more easily or where cavitation occurs

This system has so many 'return' lines or spots...wonder if the filtration
system is able to handle all of the particles generated by cavitation
going back to the main tank.

Bet some of the particles are smaller than the filter filtration spec

At 2000 BAR, bet diesel is getting into associated parts/cavities/etc
that is unthought of during their design process(s)

My observations in the past, based on history, have indicated a lag from the heat of summer, while the first bits start doing their insidious cancer like work, then, in a couple of months, the cancer kills the host High Pressure Fuel Pump, after spreading through all parts of the fuel system, killing other parts too. Really, it spreads like cancer, once things start from malignant metal wear into the fuel system. Like Cancer, Bosch doesn't have a cure, we think.

By the end of October, the next round of failures might start showing up in trending numbers, clear through January.

NewsW wrote:
Those of you out there with the CP 4 Pump... here is the latest twist:


http://forums.tdiclub.com/showpost.php?p=3907598&postcount=3840

Quote:
Originally Posted by storx View Post
I just recently installed a fuel pressure gauge in my car because I been wiring up my gauges for big turbo install... I noticed that under full boost at higher RPMs the gauge shows my inlet pressure to Bosch pump was dropping almost in half... I talked to dealership and according to there repair manual it's still within tolerance so I'm ordering a air dog unit pretty soon here...I have a 24valve cummins that suffered from IP failures from low fuel pressure so I'm not taking chances and just adding additional pump to assure solid pressure


Hmmmm... cavitation, if it occurred, could theoretically provoke a failure of the pump's HP section.

This is an interesting possibility....

Cavitation would mean many things, including lack of lubrication.

#1, lost lub at that spot
#2, molecules removed to create pitting. Over time flakes of varying sizes
#3, those molecules of material is now in suspension to then be pushed
into the down stream system

Note the removal of the coating from one part and not the other.

That can mean the DLC coated parts have different surface tension characteristics with diesel fuel.... or contaminants like water... or...

Such a key indication of the lack of understanding of both what they
are dealing with (root cause) and of the material(s)

I know that diamond is not easily 'wetted' (that best non-stick material
known to mankind thing). If it needs lube, that needs to have some
pretty high film strength rating.

Does this then say two like surfaces of not easily wetted material
was NOT getting enough lube?

That then points to one of my original premises that both diesel is
a poor lube and that the cam cavity is so poorly designed to have
stagnant areas NOT lubed and/or not flushed with new lube.

Yes, what does H2O do to all materials inside that poorly designed
cam cavity?

Summer is nearly over... and I am now sitting around waiting for the failure reports to come in for the next iteration of the analysis.

New thought based on this...wonder if the hot summer, summer fuel conditons,
and the condensation cycles of summer show up later in the summer?

An accumulated process(s)

H2O has microscopic bubbles of air. Does diesel? Those are the spots
more easily or where cavitation occurs

This system has so many 'return' lines or spots...wonder if the filtration
system is able to handle all of the particles generated by cavitation
going back to the main tank.

Bet some of the particles are smaller than the filter filtration spec

At 2000 BAR, bet diesel is getting into associated parts/cavities/etc
that is unthought of during their design process(s)