Forum Discussion

cephoto's avatar
cephoto
Explorer
Oct 19, 2015

2004 Keystone Laredo, 29GR, plumbing/waste tank diagrams

I need to do some maintenance on my Laredo black/gray tanks, the associated valves and pull cables. Lube cables to waste valves if possible, replace them and valves if necessary. They're getting hard to pull. The problem is I'd like to know what I'm getting into before I open up the under carriage covering. I called Keystone and they insisted "no drawings, no diagrams exist. Call a dealer"

???

NOTE: the company that manufactures Keystone Laredo RVs apparently do it from spare parts and ad lib on the factory floor and use no diagrams/drawings... or so the customer service reps INSISTED. NO DRAWINGS.

I've also searched Google... not getting anywhere.

Does anyone else know where I might get an idea of what's up under the covering before I start removing it(it's one piece, covers the entire length of the RV frt to back). I'd like to see where the tanks are placed(2 gray/1 black) and how the plumbing going from them is laid out, where the valves are placed, how the cables run.

2004 Keystone Laredo, 29GR
  • laknox's avatar
    laknox
    Nomad
    Oct 21, 2015
    cephoto wrote:
    well, while I can see where on a specific, single house project there may not be drawing of precise plumbing and electrical runs, I don't believe for a second that Keystone produces multiple models of RVs by the hundreds without knowing pretty much exactly where the gray/black tanks will fit, how the plumbing will run to each and exit the RV. This is a production line, not one of a kind housing. And there is a need for that or I wouldn't be here obviously.

    The Customer Service rep simply didn't want to take her time up finding them for me... for free. In this day when all is on a disk somewhere(and betting those very plans too), Keystone should already have a system set up for such request from someone who purchases their products and needs this info.

    Perhaps I see customer service as providing service to the customer and some see it as providing as little service as possible.


    I couldn't even get Jayco to part with their plumbing schematics for a =fee=! I just don't understand why anyone would turn down money for something relatively simple. I used to work in the high-end watch business. Think you can get a new instruction manual from anybody? Patek Philippe could charge $250-500 per manual and have a license to print money, the demand would be so high. Same with display boxes, that have a tendency to simply rot the insides out. They could charge $1,500-2,000 each, and make =tons= of cash...but they won't. Just stupid...

    Lyle
  • cephoto's avatar
    cephoto
    Explorer
    Oct 21, 2015
    well, while I can see where on a specific, single house project there may not be drawing of precise plumbing and electrical runs, I don't believe for a second that Keystone produces multiple models of RVs by the hundreds without knowing pretty much exactly where the gray/black tanks will fit, how the plumbing will run to each and exit the RV. This is a production line, not one of a kind housing. And there is a need for that or I wouldn't be here obviously.

    The Customer Service rep simply didn't want to take her time up finding them for me... for free. In this day when all is on a disk somewhere(and betting those very plans too), Keystone should already have a system set up for such request from someone who purchases their products and needs this info.

    Perhaps I see customer service as providing service to the customer and some see it as providing as little service as possible.
  • bpounds's avatar
    bpounds
    Nomad
    Oct 21, 2015
    laknox wrote:
    bpounds wrote:
    They obviously have/had some drawings/templates. They knew where to put windows in the walls.

    But I'm not so sure they have drawings for things like plumbing runs and electrical cable routing. These are built a lot more like your house, and a lot less like your truck. You wouldn't ask for drawings of the plumbing under the sink in your house. A tradesman does that. You wouldn't ask for a schematic of the wire runs in your house. A tradesman drills holes in the studs as he strings his cable. Your trailer is a lot more like that, than the wiring harness under the dash of your truck. It could be argued that that is a lot of the problem with quality. Leaving too much up to the "tradesman" who was probably a farmer last year.

    If they do have drawings, why would they give them away? The company I work for wouldn't publish engineering material. It is proprietary.


    My son-in-law, a local city building inspector, might take issue with that. :-) I can tell you that if he doesn't see an approved set of plans on whatever it is he's inspecting, and if the reality doesn't match the plans, that project gets red-flagged PDQ. Doesn't matter if it's a permitted storage shed in some guy's back yard or the massive new FedEx Ground warehouse that was built here just recently, and which he inspected most of.

    Lyle


    Right. Question is, what is the level of detail on those plans. Every building project I've seen, all the devices are shown. Receptacles, light cans, toilet, etc. But the wiring to those devices, is left up to the electrician to route as he sees fit. Same with water and sewer. There are codes as to how that stuff must be run, but it isn't designed by the architect or shown on his plans.

    And there really isn't any need for that, in a house or a trailer. For the OP question, you just have to pull back the cover to see what you've got. Go from there.
  • laknox's avatar
    laknox
    Nomad
    Oct 21, 2015
    bpounds wrote:
    They obviously have/had some drawings/templates. They knew where to put windows in the walls.

    But I'm not so sure they have drawings for things like plumbing runs and electrical cable routing. These are built a lot more like your house, and a lot less like your truck. You wouldn't ask for drawings of the plumbing under the sink in your house. A tradesman does that. You wouldn't ask for a schematic of the wire runs in your house. A tradesman drills holes in the studs as he strings his cable. Your trailer is a lot more like that, than the wiring harness under the dash of your truck. It could be argued that that is a lot of the problem with quality. Leaving too much up to the "tradesman" who was probably a farmer last year.

    If they do have drawings, why would they give them away? The company I work for wouldn't publish engineering material. It is proprietary.


    My son-in-law, a local city building inspector, might take issue with that. :-) I can tell you that if he doesn't see an approved set of plans on whatever it is he's inspecting, and if the reality doesn't match the plans, that project gets red-flagged PDQ. Doesn't matter if it's a permitted storage shed in some guy's back yard or the massive new FedEx Ground warehouse that was built here just recently, and which he inspected most of.

    Lyle
  • bpounds's avatar
    bpounds
    Nomad
    Oct 21, 2015
    They obviously have/had some drawings/templates. They knew where to put windows in the walls.

    But I'm not so sure they have drawings for things like plumbing runs and electrical cable routing. These are built a lot more like your house, and a lot less like your truck. You wouldn't ask for drawings of the plumbing under the sink in your house. A tradesman does that. You wouldn't ask for a schematic of the wire runs in your house. A tradesman drills holes in the studs as he strings his cable. Your trailer is a lot more like that, than the wiring harness under the dash of your truck. It could be argued that that is a lot of the problem with quality. Leaving too much up to the "tradesman" who was probably a farmer last year.

    If they do have drawings, why would they give them away? The company I work for wouldn't publish engineering material. It is proprietary.
  • IND_navyvet's avatar
    IND_navyvet
    Explorer
    Oct 21, 2015
    cephoto wrote:
    It does speak for Keystone and should give pause to anyone purchasing an RV from them.

    "We don't want to help you, you bought it, it's yours to deal with. We only get paid once"


    I think this could apply to several manufacturers.
  • cephoto's avatar
    cephoto
    Explorer
    Oct 21, 2015
    Now that I agree on(that they do have them scanned but just too lazy to find them, share). It does speak for Keystone and should give pause to anyone purchasing an RV from them.

    "We don't want to help you, you bought it, it's yours to deal with. We only get paid once"
  • laknox's avatar
    laknox
    Nomad
    Oct 20, 2015
    cephoto wrote:
    to be clear Lyle, my comment about building RVs from spare parts/ad lib was a bit of sarcasm... I hope. Although the CS person did insist drawings no longer exist, I assume there must have been some drawings to go by at least in the year my RV was produced. I do think it's disturbing that a company that builds them doesn't keep the drawings.
    The same person that made the decision to throw the drawings away I'm betting was the interior decorator that decided on the horrible fabrics and dog ugly furniture as she/he wanted to lose the evidence and the memory.
    No offense to our four legged friends.


    Frankly, I don't think they're too far off, the way that some of these things are built. I also think that they =do= have them...scanned...and just don't want to share them...or take the trouble to do so. Again, just shows the attitude the mfrs tend to have about their customers. Anything they don't want to do, even if they're capable of doing it, they throw onto their dealers.

    I agree about the interior fabrics, though I thought they were designed by old hippies having acid flashbacks. Sure not designed by people who actually =use= RVs or they'd get away from the vinyl/"leatherette" junk. They sit in their A/C'd offices all day and have never had a case of swamp-a$$, from sitting on that stuff. Give me good ol' cloth any day.

    Lyle
  • cephoto's avatar
    cephoto
    Explorer
    Oct 20, 2015
    to be clear Lyle, my comment about building RVs from spare parts/ad lib was a bit of sarcasm... I hope. Although the CS person did insist drawings no longer exist, I assume there must have been some drawings to go by at least in the year my RV was produced. I do think it's disturbing that a company that builds them doesn't keep the drawings.
    The same person that made the decision to throw the drawings away I'm betting was the interior decorator that decided on the horrible fabrics and dog ugly furniture as she/he wanted to lose the evidence and the memory.
    No offense to our four legged friends.
  • laknox's avatar
    laknox
    Nomad
    Oct 20, 2015
    cephoto wrote:
    I need to do some maintenance on my Laredo black/gray tanks, the associated valves and pull cables. Lube cables to waste valves if possible, replace them and valves if necessary. They're getting hard to pull. The problem is I'd like to know what I'm getting into before I open up the under carriage covering. I called Keystone and they insisted "no drawings, no diagrams exist. Call a dealer"

    ???

    NOTE: the company that manufactures Keystone Laredo RVs apparently do it from spare parts and ad lib on the factory floor and use no diagrams/drawings... or so the customer service reps INSISTED. NO DRAWINGS.

    I've also searched Google... not getting anywhere.

    Does anyone else know where I might get an idea of what's up under the covering before I start removing it(it's one piece, covers the entire length of the RV frt to back). I'd like to see where the tanks are placed(2 gray/1 black) and how the plumbing going from them is laid out, where the valves are placed, how the cables run.

    2004 Keystone Laredo, 29GR


    I asked Jayco the same question on a 2016 model and they were shocked I'd even think of asking that question. I did ask a guy at a dealership about the specific model we're looking at and he passed my question on to his lead service tech. I was able to get an answer to my question. This might be the route you have to take.

    I can't believe that =anyone= allowed to talk to the public at a mfr would actually admit that they build an entire line of RVs from "spare parts". That's about the stupidest comment from a mfr rep that I've ever heard.

    Lyle

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