Forum Discussion

Explorer

Oct 16, 2016

Hydraulic slide out issues while traveling

After buying a used 5th wheel, prepping it, and setting out on our cross country journey, we thought we had all of our ducks in a row, but our hydraulic slide out mechanism stopped functioning at our 2nd stop. The bedroom slide would go out, but the other 2 would not - they just kind of shuddered for a moment while the pump made straining noises. After calling about 30 RV service centers (any shop that seemed somewhat reputable on google) within a few hundred miles, we found out that every single one of them had a long (2 - 6 weeks) wait in their service schedule - the shortest wait we could find would only be 10 days before they could look at our rig. After mulling over the risks and the alternatives, we decided to drive about a hundred miles and take it to this shop.

The guys at this shop were professional and super nice. After a few days, they tested and diagnosed our problem as a weak hydraulic pump (well, partially weak - apparently retraction was strong enough, but in reverse, the pump pressure was weak). It took a week and a few days to get the new pump shipped and installed, so we decided to extend our time in Colorado (luckily our schedule is pretty flexible) and cabin camp in some of the cool mountainous places we wanted to go, but were too afraid to tow our rig. When the shop called and told me that the pump was replaced, the slides were working, and the rig was ready to go, since we were about 500 miles away at this point, we decided to finish our current cabin reservations and pick it up in 2 days.

At this point, it seemed like we were trouble-free and were pretty excited to continue the rest of our journey. After getting to the shop and trying to hitch up, the first thing that I noticed was that the hydraulic landing gear no longer worked at all. The switch appeared to be completely dead, rendering the unit un-hitchable. I called a tech over and asked him about it and he was super nice and apologetic. He and a few others started testing the switch wiring and pretty quickly discovered that there was no voltage to the switch. After spending a few minutes on it, they were able to reconnect the switch and voila - the landing gear worked and we were hitched up. This seemed odd to me since we had never had problems with that switch before - not sure what was going on there, but I figure it must have been related to the pump replacement.

My skepticism finally won out over my laziness and compulsion to get on the road, so I decided that I'd better slow down and actually test the slides before leaving the shop. When I did, the symptoms were exactly as before - the bedroom slide went out (although kinda sluggishly - it's always been a bit sluggish), but the other slides did nothing more than a bit of a shudder as the pump strained when it got to be their turn. I talked to the tech again, who was again super apologetic and somewhat perplexed. He said that he had replaced the pump himself and that the last step of replacing it was to work the slides in and our several times to make sure there weren't air bubbles in the hydraulic line (I might be describing that wrong), so he had personally seen them go in and out at least 5 times immediately after the replacement.

After poking around on it for a while, it became clear that no amount of fiddling with the slide in/out switch was going to resolve the problem, so we left the trailer with them, modified our schedule again, and booked more cabin time. Unfortunately we won't be able to hear back from them until their weekend is over.

Now I love cabins, and I love this area of the country, but it's a pretty stressful and nerve-wracking experience not knowing what's going on here (I don't know much about hydraulic systems, unfortunately). Right now, my worst fear is that when I talk to the shop next week, they will tell me that they can't or won't fix the underlying issue and I'll be back to square one (well, except for the wasted weeks and money - boy was that unnecessary pump expensive), which is kind of a nightmare for me. I have a (perhaps unreasonable) fear that this problem is tricky to diagnose and if I don't familiarize myself with the troubleshooting procedures or likely culprits, they will try to shirk the job. This is a repeated pattern for me with other truck/auto shops I've been to and tricky to diagnose issues - if I don't crawl up their butt and ask every question about everything they did to diagnose an issue, they will shrug and hand it back, ignoring requests to fix/diagnose trickier problems and only addressing super straight-forward issues. In my experience only repeated rounds of "what were your results when you performed this specific test?" and "well, maybe you could try that and get back to me?", are able to get tricky auto issues diagnosed - I am scared it might be the same with RV service shops, too, but don't yet have enough experience to tell. It's possible I don't know how to talk to shops properly - I might be too nice/thankful, undercutting a sense a urgency or threat of an angry customer, but that's another discussion altogether, haha.

So does this description of the hydraulic issue jump out to anyone as symptoms of a specific problem (well, except battery related issues, we eliminated that at the shop by running off their external battery pack - no change in behavior). After reading the Lippert hydraulic service manual (found the PDF on google), I'm suspecting that it might be a leak in the hydraulic line. This kind of makes sense to me because the slides worked fine in Texas, but as soon as we got a little elevation in Colorado (~4000 ft from about sea level), they stopped working - I think it would have to be a pretty small leak, though, to only affect the pump-replaced system after a few days and for there not to be any leaking hydraulic fluid present, and for the landing gear and bedroom slide to still work. This is not my area of expertise, though, so my guess could be totally off.

If it is a hydraulic leak, is that the sort of repair a reputable shop might try to shirk to get me out of there? Ie, is it possible they might try to get rid of me by saying they don't do hydraulic leaks and if so, is that legitimate (and I should just move on) or sketchy (and I should call them out on it)? Is a leak in the hydraulic line a "hard" problem to fix? I could imagine so (I mean, how do you find it if it's small? Lippert's manual certainly doesn't address that), but I don't have enough experience to say for sure.

I'm also curious if anyone has any advice for other ways I could (or could have) addressed the problem. The only other option I considered was hiring a mobile mechanic, but I decided against since we were on the road and many of the parks I've seen have rules against repairing your rig during your stay. I was also concerned that since it's a hydraulic issue, hydraulic fluid could come gushing out during the repair and I could get charged by a campground for staining their gravel or something. I also had concerns that hydraulic issues might be too complex for a mobile tech with limited shop/tool access. But maybe there's another way or a good place I could meet a mobile mechanic? Any other options there that maybe I overlooked?

Thanks for reading my long post.

Mandalay_Parr
Explorer
Oct 16, 2016
Ask mobile tech if he has hydraulic experience.
Call factory that made that hydraulic mechanism and ask their advice.
donn0128
Explorer II
Oct 16, 2016
When is the last time you cleaned and lubed the slide room mechanisms? Dey lube is the best lube to use.
padredw
Nomad
Oct 16, 2016
You have probably already done so, BUT just in case:

Have you checked the battery (batteries)?

On my trailer a fully charged battery is necessary for slide and landing gear operation.

But surely . . . that would have been first thing the shop checked out.
Old-Biscuit
Explorer III
Oct 16, 2016
padredw wrote:
You have probably already done so, BUT just in case:

Have you checked the battery (batteries)?

On my trailer a fully charged battery is necessary for slide and landing gear operation.

But surely . . . that would have been first thing the shop checked out.
'

If shop didn;t have RV plugged into shore power......all that 'testing' would have run batteries down enough to have have low voltage.
Low voltage...no workie

If there was a leak the hydraulic pump reservoir would loose level and pump would run just fine (not shudder) until reservoir went dry.

Check battery voltage.
netjam
Explorer
Oct 16, 2016
Had Lippert Hydraulics in my Elite Suite. Slides would wander out while driving. Went to about 5 different shops where they replaced rams, solinoids (but no pump) etc with no improvement. Had to travel with slide locks (4X4s) to keep the slides closed. Eventually the one slide wouldn't go in or out. Next shop said it was an easy fix, so I said "great take it on trade for one of your new 5ers" They did so who knows if it ever got fixed. I know my story doesn't help you, just wanted you to know you are not alone.
My current rv has no hydraulics (all electric jacks and slides). I can deal with motors and wires.
Jim2007
Explorer
Oct 17, 2016
Hi... sorry about your problems on the trip. That is upsetting. We headed out from Co. To northern Ca. For a 2 week trip. First night out aat a campground in Salt Lake City the one slide out we have failed to slide out. I could hear the motor running but it would not move out. I found the hand crank and it would not move the slide out.. At this time we had one day of travel behind us and reservation at campground for 12 nights booked for the balance of the trip. We decided to continue ..... It was a bit cozy. But the awesome Red woods were great.. Turns out the bracket that holds the motor broke and that was fixed when got back to Co. Jim2007
Fxfymn
Explorer
Oct 17, 2016
Here is the link to the Lippert manual: http://www.lci1.com/assets/content/support/manuals/Slideouts/Hydro_Sync_Slide_out_System_Service_Manual.pdf

I doubt that it is a leak since the hydraulic fluid would quickly make it's presence known if it was leaking.

As others have indicated the hydraulic system is really a two part system; the hydraulics and the electrical system that powers it. Since the problem seems to be sporadic in that the shop had the slides working and then they did not, I would check the voltage at the pump motor first.

Have you or the shop tried the manual over ride? There should be a method to hand pump the slides in. Some systems have a valve to operate to do this and I would check that valve to make sure it is in the proper position.

Even if the battery is fully charged there could still be a point of electrical resistance in the pump circuit that is causing a low voltage at the pump. A test meter applied while the pump is under load should be able to check that. Another indicator would be a high amperage draw, but that should kick the circuit breaker providing some enterprising individual din't "fix" the problem by jumping around the circuit breaker.

I would also have them ensure that the lines are hooked up according to the manufacturer's specs. If someone was into this before it is pretty easy to hook a line up incorrectly.

When I trouble shoot an item, particularly something that I suspect has been worked on before, my first step is to ensure everything is hooked up the way it should be. A good tech will not assume anything before he/she ensures themselves of this first.

I know this is of little consolation, but my bet is it will turn out to be something pretty simple. It is human nature to look for the absolute worst thing it can be; say the pump?, when it is usually something like a broken wire or an incorrectly turned valve.
arglebargle
Explorer
Oct 19, 2016
Thanks so much for the replies! It's nice to know that I'm not completely alone in my experience - trailer repairs are tricky business it turns out. :(

Well, I thought it'd give you guys an update - the shop called me back and let me know that they now think it's a problem with the slide rams. They are pretty clearly in "get rid of me mode" at this point, though - the guy I spoke with seeded the conversation with talk about how he's not sure if another shop might be better technically to replace the rams, we're back at the end of the schedule now, so it'd be at least a week before they can look at it again, replacing the rams might not even fix the problem anyways, yadda-yadda-yadda. It also sounded like he was trying to feel out if I wanted them to put the old motor back in to cut down on the previous bill - I just want my trailer to be fixed, but I don't think that is in the cards.

At this point, I still don't know much about these hydraulic systems and am only just learning what "rams" are, but after reading over some of the replies to this thread (and others), I'm realizing that the most likely outcome is that they replace another expensive part, but it does not resolve the problem. I think the shop realizes this, too, and that's why they're trying to get rid of me - I think they feel bad about how this has turned out so far and don't want to go for another round.

I'm still trying to figure out what my next move is, but at this point I see the likelihood of the next part fixing the issue as so low that I don't see how I can justify replacing more parts and wasting more time and money. I'm thinking the most logical thing to do would be to take a page out of netjam's book and try to trade the fifth wheel in at a dealership that considers this an easy fix. I've definitely got some calls to make and research to do in this regard. I would appreciate any advice or experience that anyone could offer here.

The biggest takeaway I'm getting from this is that hydraulic slides are not a good match for a used 5th wheel scenario because they can fail suddenly when older and are too complicated to be troubleshot by shops without high risk of mis-diagnosis and unnecessary part replacement, even if they are on the phone with the OEM (apparently these techs have been talking with Lippert the whole time - they recommended the pump replacement originally and are recommending the rams now, too). I think my experience combined with the experience of the other replies bare this unfortunate reality out. My recommendation to anyone purchasing a used 5th wheel is to please, for the love of god, go with mechanical slide outs instead - avoid hydraulic slides like the plague.
laknox
Nomad
Oct 19, 2016
arglebargle, hydraulic rams or cylinders are pretty durn simple. Only 2 things can happen =inside= the cylinder. 1) the rubber piston seals fail, allowing oil to pass from one side to the other. 2) the cylinder wall can become worn or galled, which usually chews up the piston seals, though the wear on the cylinder walls can be so bad that the rubber seals just won't seal. If this happens, you gradually lose pressure on one side and the ram "relaxes" and either extends or retracts (depending on the direction of the external pressure on it). If the rod seal fails, you have a messy leak.

The other major source of internal leaks are the actuator valves. Here, the solenoids can fail or wear to the point where they don't completely move to open/close the valve. Other thing that happens is the valve seats can either wear or get trash in them, again causing a failure to seal. It doesn't take much of a leak, given that these systems run under a =lot= of pressure, to cause a cylinder to move. Bad (cheap) metal can even =erode= from the high pressures and cr@ppy castings can crack, again from the pressure. Had all that happen while on the farm, which is a much more extreme environment that RVing, for sure.

Lyle
arglebargle
Explorer
Oct 28, 2016
Welp, after weighing the pros and cons I went ahead and traded the 5th wheel in for one that didn't have hydraulic slides on the theory that at least if a mechanical/cable driven slide stopped working, it could be troubleshooted in an unambiguous way (it seems that the various failure modes of hydraulic slides can be ambiguous as far as which part is broken, so shops will often need to replace multiple parts in a row, meaning a broken hydraulic slide can be a multi-month wait, which is incompatible with full time rving).

Unfortunately, 3 nights after the trade, the _exact_ same symptoms appeared on the new trailer - bedroom slide works, other slide motor makes noise but room doesn't move. Since it was used, there's no warranty. I also can't trade it in any time soon because the stupid title is being mailed to me, so I no longer have a trailer with a title in hand. I hate paperwork.

As far as the current problem, I tried manually cranking the slide out, but it looks like the axle (might be the wrong word, the thing that you manually crank) is crooked and most likely disconnected. The tip is visible through the crank hole, but it's visibly crooked, doesn't feel like it's connected to anything, and it looks like it's resting on the top of the trailer's underside liner, causing the liner to sag a bit. I think if the liner wasn't there, I might be able to assess whether it was broken or just fell out or something. As it is, there doesn't seem to be any user accessible parts or anything visible that could let me troubleshoot further.

I'm currently waiting a week for a mobile tech to take a look (unfortunately all the mobile techs in the area I called are out at least that long, shops are even longer). In the meantime, I'm hoping that maybe someone has some tips on how to troubleshoot this just in case it's a simple problem I can fix (like the axle has fallen out of a hole and just needs to be shoved back in).