Disgruntled Millennials on the Road

I do believe this one has run it's course.

fulltimedaniel you really have no clue.

happycamper002 wrote:
Fulltimedaniel wrote:

. . . Now "Needlessly" seems to be the operative term here. Are these higher costs necessary? I don't think so. And it is no insult to say it. Canada is a great country with a great people. But your collective skin can be a bit thin at times.

I have been complained to by many Canadians about Americas crime, our dirty streets, our guns (I dont own one) our politicians and unbelievably about our high costs??? None of it makes me angry. I take it in stride.

Maybe it is because I have spent so much of my life overseas living and working in other countries and hearing what everyone from Palestinians to Indonesians to Canadians think about my country both positive and negative that I take these discussions amiably.

I have been personally blamed by Australians traveling in Indonesia for the treatment of Palestinians by Israel...I pointed out to that person that when (then) President Reagan accepts my calls and my advice I will surely set him straight.

I made no claim in any of my posts which country was better in one way or another only that one was more expensive...even with the exchange rate in our favor. That is a fact as clearly pointed out by the Globe and Mail article. It is also a fact as evidenced by the tens of thousands of Canadians that continue to stream across the border to buy Gas and shop at WalMart and Target and other places in our towns along the border.

If the two countries were more equal in costs this money would go into the Canadian economy and there would be more taxes collected to help pay for your better services in health care and education.

But blaming an outsider for pointing out the obvious seems a bit churlish to me. I look forward to my next trip through Canada coming up here in a few days on my way to Alaska. . . .

End of abbreviated quote.

My response:

I love the articulation but I have to digress.

I have not had a chance to read the original post before it evaporized but (it looks like) that whatever it was it was not the gist of this debate.

When you branded that cost of living as “needlessly” high, you are implying that your observation about a country's economy should be based on what you've seen in the country you're in. . . in this case the US.

This is a rehash of what the Canadian had said which I thought I had to mention for the sake of relevance and decorum, because the original post is “gone with the wind”.

I don't know if you've run a business. I did run my own business for some time in the past.

In a country (Canada) whose economy is based on free enterprise (laissez-faire) which means a business can charge their services as the market is willing to pay.

Customers have the option of patronizing the said business but they are also free not to buy what the business has to offer.

I've lived in Australia where my sister resides permanently which allows me to stay as long as I want. The last time I was there was when the Aussie dollar went through roof. It rose above the USD by about six cents which means 1 USD was only worth 94 cents in Australia. My profession took me to the jungles of Laos, the offshore oil platforms in Lake Maracaibo, Venezuela to the pristine villages in Northern Thailand to mention a few.

Now the Aussie dollar is worth appprox USD 70 cents.

The rate of exchange wasn't that far off in Canada at that time --they seemed to go hand in hand.

It did cost my USD a lot to buy a whole roasted chicken in down town Melbourne-- 12.00 USD that will would only cost 5.75 USD at Sams Club. And how about a pound of banana that did cost me 7 USD.

Hasty generalization based on one instance is faulty reasoning. I've only camped in Canada once sometime back.

Have you camped in other RV Parks on several occasions all in one setting? I'm sure all of them do not charge “needlessly” high. Fierce competition is what makes free enterprise excels that satisfies both seller and buyer.

I don't expect that you or other posters to agree on this. . . but the least we can do is “agree to disagree”.

Happy camping.

I have been traveling in Canada since the mid seventies not including my first trip to Alaska in 1972.

I grew up in a Family Business and have owned my own large and small businesses and headed corporations.

I based my term "Needlessly" on economic factors not political ones. It has nothing to do with costs in this country. And nothing is implied by that observation. I do agree that it may be perceived that way however.

If you read the Globe and Mail article posted with the comments you extracted and posted here you would have seen they agreed with my assessment.

But lets look at this another way: America is a very cheap industrialized country to live in Compared to most other industrialized countries. There are many factors that go into that not least of which is our huge population with great buying power and a progressive tax system.

When my good friends from England came here to go to the Grand Canyon and other parks with us last year they said "Good god gas is TOO CHEAP here!" I said 'Oh Please DONT say that!" They were amazed at how cheap our food is and Wal Mart was a true pricing wakeup call for them. I was not insulted by this.

Petrol in Great Britain is about $6.00 per gallon. How can the same crude oil cost 3 times as much in GB than in the US? Well a smaller market, and higher distribution costs and higher wages. But does that add up to 3 times? No not by any economic terms. So does petrol "NEED" to cost that much. No. So what is the difference. In GB it's partially high taxes but it's also a theory of economics that holds that people will pay what they are USED to paying regardless of other economic factors such as supply and demand. This basically means that Gas is Needlessly high in GB.

There is a wonderful Jam made in Switzerland where I first had it. HERO Jam costs more in Switzerland (one and a half times) where it's made than it does in the US. It costs LESS than that in Cambodia. Is that truly necessary? NO. The company knows it can get a certain pricing level in the US a different one in Switzerland and yet a third and lower one in Cambodia. It is the same jam. And even though it traveled to Cambodia via Australia it still costs less and there is still profit in it for everyone.

I think this is what happens in Canada to some extent. Not with RV parks by the way which are for the most part on a par with what one would expect, but with certain products and services.

My bet is that the same folks who have taken me to task over this statement do more than their share of complaining about certain costs in their home country and are being a bit disingenuous. And this is NOT about politics it is about economics and the cost of traveling through another country.

But this is terribly off topic for this thread and should not really have come up here. It did because a certain member seems to have a personal problem with me.(not the author of the quoted post above) I apologize to the posters on this thread that he saw fit to hijack it and I take my share of responsibility for answering.

Perhaps now we can get back to the original topic?

Fulltimedaniel wrote:

. . . Now "Needlessly" seems to be the operative term here. Are these higher costs necessary? I don't think so. And it is no insult to say it. Canada is a great country with a great people. But your collective skin can be a bit thin at times.

I have been complained to by many Canadians about Americas crime, our dirty streets, our guns (I dont own one) our politicians and unbelievably about our high costs??? None of it makes me angry. I take it in stride.

Maybe it is because I have spent so much of my life overseas living and working in other countries and hearing what everyone from Palestinians to Indonesians to Canadians think about my country both positive and negative that I take these discussions amiably.

I have been personally blamed by Australians traveling in Indonesia for the treatment of Palestinians by Israel...I pointed out to that person that when (then) President Reagan accepts my calls and my advice I will surely set him straight.

I made no claim in any of my posts which country was better in one way or another only that one was more expensive...even with the exchange rate in our favor. That is a fact as clearly pointed out by the Globe and Mail article. It is also a fact as evidenced by the tens of thousands of Canadians that continue to stream across the border to buy Gas and shop at WalMart and Target and other places in our towns along the border.

If the two countries were more equal in costs this money would go into the Canadian economy and there would be more taxes collected to help pay for your better services in health care and education.

But blaming an outsider for pointing out the obvious seems a bit churlish to me. I look forward to my next trip through Canada coming up here in a few days on my way to Alaska. . . .

End of abbreviated quote.

My response:

I love the articulation but I have to digress.

I have not had a chance to read the original post before it evaporized but (it looks like) that whatever it was it was not the gist of this debate.

When you branded that cost of living as “needlessly” high, you are implying that your observation about a country's economy should be based on what you've seen in the country you're in. . . in this case the US.

This is a rehash of what the Canadian had said which I thought I had to mention for the sake of relevance and decorum, because the original post is “gone with the wind”.

I don't know if you've run a business. I did run my own business for some time in the past.

In a country (Canada) whose economy is based on free enterprise (laissez-faire) which means a business can charge their services as the market is willing to pay.

Customers have the option of patronizing the said business but they are also free not to buy what the business has to offer.

I've lived in Australia where my sister resides permanently which allows me to stay as long as I want. The last time I was there was when the Aussie dollar went through the roof. It rose above the USD by about six cents which means 1 USD was only worth 94 cents in Australia. My profession took me to the jungles of Laos, the offshore oil platforms in Lake Maracaibo, Venezuela to the pristine villages in Northern Thailand to mention a few.

Now the Aussie dollar is worth appprox USD 70 cents.

The rate of exchange wasn't that far off in Canada at that time --they seemed to go hand in hand.

It did cost my USD a lot to buy a whole roasted chicken in down town Melbourne-- 12.00 USD that would only cost 5.75 USD at Sams Club. And how about a pound of banana that did cost me 7 USD.

Hasty generalization based on one instance is faulty reasoning. I've only camped in Canada once sometime back.

Have you camped in other RV Parks on several occasions all in one setting? I'm sure all of them do not charge “needlessly” high. Fierce competition is what makes free enterprise excels that satisfies both seller and buyer.

I don't expect that you or other posters to agree on this. . . but the least we can do is “agree to disagree”.

Happy camping.

fulltimedaniel wrote:

v10superduty wrote:

fulltimedaniel wrote:
(Grouchy Old Codgers see below)


As for the grouchy Old Codgers some of you say you never see?...they proliferate everywhere. Angry, rude, closed minded, overtly religious or political (and by damned they are right!...always. Or so they think and say endlessly)
.

Well Daniel, obviously I don't know you or how old you are...

However I must say that YOUR description here is what I had envisioned for you.. :h

You have upset a few folks over on the Alaska/Canada forum with your posts about costs in Canada being "unnecessarily" high. Its really not your place to dictate why costs are what they are in a country you are just "visiting"...
You can for sure state that they are higher, but to say unnecessarily is just wrong. You defended your position to the point the thread got closed as the upset folks were addressing you.. :S

You have stated in more than one post that "IF" you had a way to get to Alaska without even entering Canada, you would use it. I understand you have a concern that another way may have even higher "COSTS" involved but really; that's the route you should pursue.
We have enough G O C in Canada now, don't need another who doesn't even want to be there so will probably be even more grouchy.

EDIT---
Daniel, I am currently a guest in YOUR country. Since late December actually and I would never make complaints about pricing here.
Its high for us with current exchange situation; but "it is what it is"
I chose to be here so I sure as heck will not (and don't think have ever) complain about prices being high.

First of all as you may not realize I was NOT the OP of that thread. The OP used a post of mine in another thread as the basis for his thread. This was done to start a controversy it is clear. He misstated what I said and took it out of context. I had exactly two posts in that thread. It was closed after some very angry and personal responses by the Canadians on the thread. It was not closed because of my attempt to set straight what I had said and explain it's context as I did politely and civilly.

What this has to do with this topic however is beyond me except that you wanted to continue the same kind of post that got that thread closed and continue to argue your point. I think it's rather out of bounds to try to hijack this topic with your continued personal condemnation of me.

And you are right you don't know me and therefore any speculation about my nature is at it's heart unfair and disingenuous to say nothing of being completely inaccurate.

I fully realize you were not the OP of that post that got closed because "I was" :W
I guess one of the frustrated responses to you confused that, as did you? Maybe a little better reading comprehension before you post?

As far as what this has to do with this thread, well this is the thread where you posted your description of grouchy Old Codgers..

( Angry, rude, closed minded, overtly religious or political (and by damned they are right!...always.)

And I said this is how I am picturing you and you have confirmed it.

I bet you have never been wrong in your life or admitted to it anyway Daniel)

This is my LAST post to do with you as I don't want to get myself in trouble on the forum here.
But please---- as you dislike Canada so much, take a boat around.
Don't drive through.

v10superduty wrote:

fulltimedaniel wrote:
(Grouchy Old Codgers see below)


As for the grouchy Old Codgers some of you say you never see?...they proliferate everywhere. Angry, rude, closed minded, overtly religious or political (and by damned they are right!...always. Or so they think and say endlessly)
.

Well Daniel, obviously I don't know you or how old you are...

However I must say that YOUR description here is what I had envisioned for you.. :h

You have upset a few folks over on the Alaska/Canada forum with your posts about costs in Canada being "unnecessarily" high. Its really not your place to dictate why costs are what they are in a country you are just "visiting"...
You can for sure state that they are higher, but to say unnecessarily is just wrong. You defended your position to the point the thread got closed as the upset folks were addressing you.. :S

You have stated in more than one post that "IF" you had a way to get to Alaska without even entering Canada, you would use it. I understand you have a concern that another way may have even higher "COSTS" involved but really; that's the route you should pursue.
We have enough G O C in Canada now, don't need another who doesn't even want to be there so will probably be even more grouchy.

EDIT---
Daniel, I am currently a guest in YOUR country. Since late December actually and I would never make complaints about pricing here.
Its high for us with current exchange situation; but "it is what it is"
I chose to be here so I sure as heck will not (and don't think have ever) complain about prices being high.

First of all as you may not realize I was NOT the OP of that thread. The OP used a post of mine in another thread as the basis for his thread. This was done to start a controversy it is clear. He misstated what I said and took it out of context. I had exactly two posts in that thread. It was closed after some very angry and personal responses by the Canadians on the thread. It was not closed because of my attempt to set straight what I had said and explain it's context as I did politely and civilly.

What this has to do with this topic however is beyond me except that you wanted to continue the same kind of post that got that thread closed and continue to argue your point. I think it's rather out of bounds to try to hijack this topic with your continued personal condemnation of me.

And you are right you don't know me and therefore any speculation about my nature is at it's heart unfair and disingenuous to say nothing of being completely inaccurate.

fulltimedaniel wrote:
(Grouchy Old Codgers see below)


As for the grouchy Old Codgers some of you say you never see?...they proliferate everywhere. Angry, rude, closed minded, overtly religious or political (and by damned they are right!...always. Or so they think and say endlessly)
.

Well Daniel, obviously I don't know you or how old you are...

However I must say that YOUR description here is what I had envisioned for you.. :h

You have upset a few folks over on the Alaska/Canada forum with your posts about costs in Canada being "unnecessarily" high. Its really not your place to dictate why costs are what they are in a country you are just "visiting"...
You can for sure state that they are higher, but to say unnecessarily is just wrong. You defended your position to the point the thread got closed as the upset folks were addressing you.. :S

You have stated in more than one post that "IF" you had a way to get to Alaska without even entering Canada, you would use it. I understand you have a concern that another way may have even higher "COSTS" involved but really; that's the route you should pursue.
We have enough G O C in Canada now, don't need another who doesn't even want to be there so will probably be even more grouchy.

EDIT---
Daniel, I am currently a guest in YOUR country. Since late December actually and I would never make complaints about pricing here.
Its high for us with current exchange situation; but "it is what it is"
I chose to be here so I sure as heck will not (and don't think have ever) complain about prices being high.

Interesting thread on young couples full timing

Young couples full timing

DutchmenSport wrote:
fulltimedaniel ???

Wow! Our "views" are so opposite of each other. I'm not saying either of us is right or wrong, I think we both come from different experiences. We don't camp in seasonal parks, or RV parks designed for long-term / seasonal campers. Ours is almost always State Parks, or Private Campgrounds we've selectively chosen. Of course our camping style is very transient (vacation mode) campgrounds. So maybe there is the difference.

I suppose it's kind of like going to the "ball game?" Go to a foot "ball" game and you won't find basket "ball" engaged fans there, and visa-versa. Sounds like campground selections are probably the same way. Maybe that's the difference in the experiences?

I stay in all kinds of parks and campgrounds USFS Natl Parks,BLM and Army Corps of Engineers and RV Parks from just east of the Mississippi to the west coast down thru Baja nd north to Alaska.

I also don't stay in "Seasonal" parks. I think what you mean is primarily snow bird parks, The one I am in now I have been here a bit over a month but I have been doing serious work to my trailer.

So I am not sure how our experiences are so different...except that I do cover a lot of ground around this continent as I wrote earlier.

I am not sure if your sports analogy is referencing my view of the angry old codgers or what precisely. But I see them all over and they are RV'ers, Full Timers, Campers and Long-Termers.

And I want to stress this is not an opinion it's what I see, hear and engage with all too often. Its my experience out here. There may be a lot of "Happy Campers" and I meet them too, but there are a lot of the opposite too.

I don't know if they're disgruntled, but Jason and Nikki are younger. They started in an RV and are now in a boat full time.

Also, Mike and Kathie are on their second or third trip around the country.