350 HP ICE vs. 350 HP Diesel?

OhhWell wrote:

JumboJet wrote:
OP's topic: 350 HP ICE vs. 350 HP Diesel?

My challenge, that Daveinet bastardized with his souped up dragster camouflaged as a motorhome, is this:

Get a 400 c.i./400 HP (I'll even give you 20 HP advantage) gasoline powered truck with a 35 gallon fuel tank, total GVW of 25,000 lbs. pulling a gooseneck loaded trailer. On a 1,250 mile trip, with a 50 mile head start for the gas powered pickup, cruise set at 65 mph, from the I-81 PA/MD border to Fayetteville, AR, I will beat it to the end of the trip by at least one hour.

I don't care about torque, horsepower, gearing, RPMs, etc. - I care about an apples to apples comparison excluding the fuel type. The diesel will win every time.

Why would you beat it, all the stops the gasser will have to make due to lower fuel economy and a smaller gas tank?

You just cannot comprehend what you read. Apples to apples except for fuel type. That means 3.73 diff in both trucks, 35 gallon fuel tanks both trucks. 25,000 lbs. GVW both trucks. The cruise set at 65 mph - the gasoline would downshift trying to maintain the 65 mpg until the operator just tired of the engine screaming at 5-6,000 RPM. Make them Dodges so the body style will be the same as far as wind resistance. You have been smelling gasoline fumes too long!

Out of hundreds of people that have happened to have towed 5th wheel campers with both gas and diesel, I bet there are only a few of you that prefer gasoline.

JumboJet wrote:
OP's topic: 350 HP ICE vs. 350 HP Diesel?

My challenge, that Daveinet bastardized with his souped up dragster camouflaged as a motorhome, is this:

Get a 400 c.i./400 HP (I'll even give you 20 HP advantage) gasoline powered truck with a 35 gallon fuel tank, total GVW of 25,000 lbs. pulling a gooseneck loaded trailer. On a 1,250 mile trip, with a 50 mile head start for the gas powered pickup, cruise set at 65 mph, from the I-81 PA/MD border to Fayetteville, AR, I will beat it to the end of the trip by at least one hour.

I don't care about torque, horsepower, gearing, RPMs, etc. - I care about an apples to apples comparison excluding the fuel type. The diesel will win every time.

I'll notify Motor Trend where their direct apples to apples comparison of two large pick-ups, with different engines, towing and not towing, produced the results where the gas engine won, EVERY TIME.

Wait, maybe if it was up a 90 degree hill climb and the one pick-up was loaded more, or if the sun was at a higher angle, or the temps was hotter, or if this took place at some fictional hill in Rhode Island, etc. :B

JumboJet wrote:
OP's topic: 350 HP ICE vs. 350 HP Diesel?

My challenge, that Daveinet bastardized with his souped up dragster camouflaged as a motorhome, is this:

Get a 400 c.i./400 HP (I'll even give you 20 HP advantage) gasoline powered truck with a 35 gallon fuel tank, total GVW of 25,000 lbs. pulling a gooseneck loaded trailer. On a 1,250 mile trip, with a 50 mile head start for the gas powered pickup, cruise set at 65 mph, from the I-81 PA/MD border to Fayetteville, AR, I will beat it to the end of the trip by at least one hour.

I don't care about torque, horsepower, gearing, RPMs, etc. - I care about an apples to apples comparison excluding the fuel type. The diesel will win every time.

Why would you beat it, all the stops the gasser will have to make due to lower fuel economy and a smaller gas tank?

OP's topic: 350 HP ICE vs. 350 HP Diesel?

My challenge, that Daveinet bastardized with his souped up dragster camouflaged as a motorhome, is this:

Get a 400 c.i./400 HP (I'll even give you 20 HP advantage) gasoline powered truck with a 35 gallon fuel tank, total GVW of 25,000 lbs. pulling a gooseneck loaded trailer. On a 1,250 mile trip, with a 50 mile head start for the gas powered pickup, cruise set at 65 mph, from the I-81 PA/MD border to Fayetteville, AR, I will beat it to the end of the trip by at least one hour.

I don't care about torque, horsepower, gearing, RPMs, etc. - I care about an apples to apples comparison excluding the fuel type. The diesel will win every time.

hardtobe wrote:

OhhWell wrote:

hardtobe wrote:
we can go round and round but why.?You believe that a 410HP /500 lb torque gas engine would be just fine in a big diesel pusher + that's fine.IF it was feasible and IF it would work it would be done.Its never done and that's good enough for me.End of story.To ask why is ridiculous because there are many many reasons and I think u actually know why but simply want to argue your theory.I deal in real world ideals and in the real world it simply will not work.Iam done

I must admit I would love to actually witness this old FWD MH going up 6-7% grade hills at 18000 lbs and be @80 MPH at the top
I love that story.

Ok, so you don't really have any solid reasons except that it isn't done. Or wait, there are many many reasons why it will not work, you just aren't going to say them.... :R

But soon, the Spartan Gas chassis will be out with a DP like ride and an 8.8l gas engine powering it....

Don't knock his 502. Did you read his signature? It will likely stomp whatever coach you are driving. I can take lower end DPs with my lowly V10 and just a Banks kit. And that is from a tiny bit of experience (pretty much just one drag race).

You like your DP and there is nothing wrong with that. There are many good reasons to run a diesel engine but they don't change physics.

its not a matter of liking my diesel pusher.Its a ISL 450HP,It has 1250 lbs of TV its around 370000 lbs loaded.Its not very good power on long steep mountain grades.its ok.It is simply unrealistic to think one could actually take a 410HO/500lb TV engine and install it in this same unit.That was and is my whole argument.It simply defies logic that you and dave think it will fine>>How can that be when a engine with the twice the power is barley acceptable??? never mind the fact of the heat and abuse it would take to run this thing at 5K all day long.it would go about 10000 miles and grenade

the 600 hp boosted Hemi would be a bit more appropriate for a coach that big. You are confusing Tq and HP again.

hardtobe wrote:
I must admit I would love to actually witness this old FWD MH going up 6-7% grade hills at 18000 lbs and be @80 MPH at the top
I love that story.

On page 3 JumboJet described such a situation as screaming. His description is not particularly accurate, its much more like an authoritative roar. Those big pistons turning ~5200 RPM under full load on headers and straight through mufflers is a sound like no other.

If you are familiar with the decent and incline trough Chamberlain, SD, then you know the area. My brother who lives in Pierre was trying to give me a hard time, stating if I couldn't hold 80 up that grade, particularly the last section, then I had nothing to talk about. So I proved my point. The first section, she actually accelerated up to 90, but the last steep section, I didn't get it into second gear, so it slowed to 80 and then just held that speed to the top. I should have manually shifted into 2nd, but I didn't. I've since tweaked the timing a little closer to optimum, so I may actually be able to do more. That and now having the 4 speed, its programed a little more optimum, so it will find 2nd under those conditions.

Let me use my MH as an example. It weighs ~33,000 ready to travel, with a 6k towed I'm rolling at about 39000lbs. I have an ISC 350 with 1050ftlbs. It is coupled to an Allison MD-3066 with 4.88 gears and 22.5 inch tires. I get 8.3 MPG without the toad and first trip with says about 7.8mpg.

Here is the allson brochure that gives the specs on the tranny. Notice input shaft rpm limits. I run 1750 at 67mph in 6th with about 12psi boost, level terrain. At Eisenhower tunnel the grade is about 9% and at 11000 ft. I'm doing 28 to 32 MPH without the towed. While well powered it's no hotrod and as DP go it's a middleweight.

I did the numbers on a PT6 for fun once. It was pretty cool except for fuel consumption, gallons to the mile as I recall. You can make anything work if your wallet is big enough.

I gave up on gas for towing in 1993 with my 6.5TD. If gas makes you happy, enjoy!

OhhWell wrote:

hardtobe wrote:
we can go round and round but why.?You believe that a 410HP /500 lb torque gas engine would be just fine in a big diesel pusher + that's fine.IF it was feasible and IF it would work it would be done.Its never done and that's good enough for me.End of story.To ask why is ridiculous because there are many many reasons and I think u actually know why but simply want to argue your theory.I deal in real world ideals and in the real world it simply will not work.Iam done

I must admit I would love to actually witness this old FWD MH going up 6-7% grade hills at 18000 lbs and be @80 MPH at the top
I love that story.

Ok, so you don't really have any solid reasons except that it isn't done. Or wait, there are many many reasons why it will not work, you just aren't going to say them.... :R

But soon, the Spartan Gas chassis will be out with a DP like ride and an 8.8l gas engine powering it....

Don't knock his 502. Did you read his signature? It will likely stomp whatever coach you are driving. I can take lower end DPs with my lowly V10 and just a Banks kit. And that is from a tiny bit of experience (pretty much just one drag race).

You like your DP and there is nothing wrong with that. There are many good reasons to run a diesel engine but they don't change physics.

its not a matter of liking my diesel pusher.Its a ISL 450HP,It has 1250 lbs of TV its around 370000 lbs loaded.Its not very good power on long steep mountain grades.its ok.It is simply unrealistic to think one could actually take a 410HO/500lb TV engine and install it in this same unit.That was and is my whole argument.It simply defies logic that you and dave think it will fine>>How can that be when a engine with the twice the power is barley acceptable??? never mind the fact of the heat and abuse it would take to run this thing at 5K all day long.it would go about 10000 miles and grenade

hardtobe wrote:
we can go round and round but why.?You believe that a 410HP /500 lb torque gas engine would be just fine in a big diesel pusher + that's fine.IF it was feasible and IF it would work it would be done.Its never done and that's good enough for me.End of story.To ask why is ridiculous because there are many many reasons and I think u actually know why but simply want to argue your theory.I deal in real world ideals and in the real world it simply will not work.Iam done

I must admit I would love to actually witness this old FWD MH going up 6-7% grade hills at 18000 lbs and be @80 MPH at the top
I love that story.

Ok, so you don't really have any solid reasons except that it isn't done. Or wait, there are many many reasons why it will not work, you just aren't going to say them.... :R

But soon, the Spartan Gas chassis will be out with a DP like ride and an 8.8l gas engine powering it....

Don't knock his 502. Did you read his signature? It will likely stomp whatever coach you are driving. I can take lower end DPs with my lowly V10 and just a Banks kit. And that is from a tiny bit of experience (pretty much just one drag race).

You like your DP and there is nothing wrong with that. There are many good reasons to run a diesel engine but they don't change physics.

Not sure what the hill climbing speed is on the new Ford F650 commercial trucks, with the V10 gas engine, but they do have a 30,000 GVWR. Since it is for their commercial truck line, I'm guessing the performance is more than adequate.