Antifreeze in Fleetwood Pusher

Blaster Man wrote:

This avoids situations where the manual says your capacity is 9 gallons, so you drain it and add 4 1/2 gallons of undiluted coolant. Then you fill it with water, but the radiator is full at 3 gallons of water. Now you have a mess which is a pain to get to the correct 50/50 mix, BTDT.

Actually, if the last rinse with distilled water-- therefore the residual water in heater hoses, heater core, bottom of engine block, etc is distilled water, you really don't (or shouldn't) care how much water you added.

Example: 10 gallon cooling system capacity. Residual distilled water after last drain 3 gallons (this is the unknown). Add 5 gallons coolant concentrate. If indeed you had 3 gallons of residual distilled water, then you can only put in 2 gallons to top off radiator. If there was only one gallon of residual water (unlikely) you would add 4 gallons.

The ONLY caveat is that you know total cooling system capacity. And your chassis maker is the proper source in the vast majority of cases. Yes, I guess a coach maker could decide to buy without heater core, and install their own, but that is really unlikely.

If this method still bothers you, you can certainly spend the time to insure that the whole cooling system is drained-- which means taking hoses loose and using compressed air to blow out the residual water and then add the 50/50 pre-dilute. Nothing wrong with this.

Blaster Man wrote:
I never fill the radiator with what I think is 50% of the capacity with coolant. If you think it is 9 gallons, get 9 gallon milk jugs and fill each with a 50/50 mixture. Then start filling the radiator with them. If the actual capacity is 7...you still have a 50/50 mixture in the radiator. If the actual capacity is 11, keep making gallons of 50/50 until it is full. What ever you have left, which isn't much, carry as extra in case you need it, and the radiator has exacty a 50/50 mixture.

Sorry if I made this confusing. The bottom line is that if you don't really know how much coolant it will take, even though you may know the capacity as stated in the manual, this is a good way to insure your radiator is full and you have it full with a 50/50 mixture. The other way is do it one gallon at a time...make a 50/50 mixture, put it in the radiator and keep doing that until it is full.

This avoids situations where the manual says your capacity is 9 gallons, so you drain it and add 4 1/2 gallons of undiluted coolant. Then you fill it with water, but the radiator is full at 3 gallons of water. Now you have a mess which is a pain to get to the correct 50/50 mix, BTDT.

Thanks for all the advice but, I like the way Mr. Wolfe would change it. That way I know I have a 50/50 mix!!!!!!

Brett,
This is what I have found out. It is from a Freightliner Factory Rep.

One of the most asked questions at shows and rallies is what kind of coolant is in my chassis. We use Fleet Charge SCA Pre Charged Coolant Anti-Freeze for Heavy Duty Engines as factory fill. Yes, we put the coolant in, not
Caterpillar, or Cummins and it meets both engine manufacturers coolant requirements. Fleet Charge is formulated by Old World Industries, Inc. Fleet Charge is also private labeled under Alliance SCA Pre Charged Coolant Anti-Freeze for Heavy Duty Engines for Freightliner. There is a popular myth that if coolant is green it is Ethylene Glycol and if its pink or purple its is Extended Life Coolant (ELC) this is not true. Fleet Charge is an ethylene glycol coolant with a Supplemental
Coolant Additive (SCA) and is pink in color. Fleet Charge is chemically compatible with all coolants including (ELC) coolant,
however it is not recommended you mix it with (ELC) because it negates any extended life characteristics.
A very important part of maintenance is to maintain the proper (SCA) level and freeze point of your coolant. It is recommended that you check the (SCA) level and freeze point every 6 months or 25, 000 miles and bring both back to proper levels. Checking (SCA) and freeze point can be done with a test strip. Proper levels can be maintained by topping
off with Fleet Charge or Alliance brand coolant. SCA is added on the Cummins ISB and Caterpillar 3126E in liquid form, the Cummins ISC, ISL, ISM have coolant filters that should be changed. If you have a 2002 model year chassis or newer and continue to maintain the (SCA) and freeze point every 6 months or 25,000 miles the coolant will last for 5 years or 100,000 miles. If your chassis is 2001 model year and earlier or this maintenance has not been done then it must be changed after 2 years or 60,000 miles.

So it seems as if the mechanic was technically right, but it might not be a good idea to do it. I also found out Fleet Charge and Alliance are the same thing and Alliance is available at NAPA stores and Fleet Charge at Freightliner. If I'd have only known. What I get out of the above is if I mix ELC and Alliance the ELC will lose its extended life characteristics but the SCAs can be maintained by adding it. Anyway you are right, it needs to be changed no matter what.

Don,

Yes there are test strips available-- most are three way and test pH, freeze point and SCA concentration. Make sure they are still indate, as they have a reasonably short shelf life and are not accurate if expired.

Here is an excellent Caterpillar document on fluids-- the section on coolants is near the end: http://parts.cat.com/cda/files/3244668/7/SEBU6385-08%20secure.pdf

On page 62:
62
SEBU6385-08
Maintenance Section
Cooling System Specifications i03260540
Extended Life Coolant Cooling System Maintenance
SMCS Code: 1350; 1352; 1395
Proper Additions to the Cat ELC (Extended Life Coolant)

NOTICE
Use only Cat products or commercial products that have passed the Caterpillar EC-1 specification for pre-mixed or concentrated coolants.
Use only Cat ELC Extender with Cat ELC. Do NOT use conventional SCA with Cat ELC. Mixing Cat ELC with conventional coolants and/or conventional SCA reduces the Cat ELC service life.

Do NOT mix brands or types of coolant. Do NOT mix brands or types of SCA and/or brands or types of extenders. Different brands or types may use different additive packages to meet the cooling system requirements. Different brands or types may not be compatible.

Do not mix brands or types of coolants with different brands or types of SCA or extender. Cat Extender is compatible with Cat ELC. If using non Cat EC-1 coolant, refer to the coolant manufacturer for information on a compatible extender.

Failure to follow the recommendations can reduce cooling system component life unless appropriate corrective action is performed.

wolfe10 wrote:
Don,

ELC is not really compatible with the Alliance which is a "low silicate for diesels with added SCA" coolant.

ELC is an OAT-based coolant that does not require the addition of anything for a period of 6 years unless you drive more than 300,000 miles on it.

My suggestion would be to change out the coolant if most of it is OE, as the OE coolants do not have a design life that would still have it in good condition. And replacing coolant is a LOT less expensive than radiators, water pumps, etc.

BTW, here is the part number for ELC Concentrate is: Caterpillar 119-5150 or 238-8647 which is ELC with embitterment.


Brett

Brett,
According to what I've read on the subject there is a test strip that can be used to determine if the SCA is ok and if its not more can be added rather than replacing all of the coolant. The parts man at he dealership asked a mechanic if the ELC was compatible with Alliance and he said it was while I was standing there. I believe it states on the bottle that it is compatible with all types of coolants. That was why I used it.

Don,

ELC is not really compatible with the Alliance which is a "low silicate for diesels with added SCA" coolant.

ELC is an OAT-based coolant that does not require the addition of anything for a period of 6 years unless you drive more than 300,000 miles on it.

My suggestion would be to change out the coolant if most of it is OE, as the OE coolants do not have a design life that would still have it in good condition. And replacing coolant is a LOT less expensive than radiators, water pumps, etc.

BTW, here is the part number for ELC Concentrate is: Caterpillar 119-5150 or 238-8647 which is ELC with embitterment.


Brett

wolfe10 wrote:
I know for a fact (since I have purchased both from a Caterpillar dealer) that Caterpillar ELC comes as both concentrate and pre-dilute.

And, since the OP has a Caterpillar engine, that is what I would recommend. Just as I would recommend Fleetguard (Cummins brand) if this were a Cummins.

I have a Mercedes 330 hp diesel on a Freightliner chassis. I put ELC in it mainly because where I was at there was no Cummins dealer. And, I know for a fact that the dealer I went to, at least at the time, only had ELC in a premix. The sticker on the radiator calls for Alliance fully formulated with SCAs. Couldn't find Alliance anywhere. What would you have used? I think either one would be ok as long as they had the SCAs. By the way, I was just adding because the overflow tank was empty, but it took a full gallon to get it up to the full mark.

I know for a fact (since I have purchased both from a Caterpillar dealer) that Caterpillar ELC comes as both concentrate and pre-dilute.

And, since the OP has a Caterpillar engine, that is what I would recommend. Just as I would recommend Fleetguard (Cummins brand) if this were a Cummins.

JimM68 wrote:

Blaster Man wrote:
I never fill the radiator with what I think is 50% of the capacity with coolant. If you think it is 9 gallons, get 9 gallon milk jugs and fill each with a 50/50 mixture. Then start filling the radiator with them. If the actual capacity is 7...you still have a 50/50 mixture in the radiator. If the actual capacity is 11, keep making gallons of 50/50 until it is full. What ever you have left, which isn't much, carry as extra in case you need it, and the radiator has exacty a 50/50 mixture.

I gotta say....

I've never read on the internet anything that makes that much sense.

Look guys, if you buy the proper stuff called out in the manual by Cat or Cummins, you can only get it premixed. You are not supposed to put standard automobile anti-freeze in these diesels. You may get by with it IF you use a special additive for diesel engines but why take the chance just to save a couple of bucks.