Battery upgrade.. how in a 4winds with....

jwcolby54,

Lead acid brand new need to have several discharge recharge cycles to reach their full capacity. This was not done prior to the testing.

https://batteryuniversity.com/article/bu-804-how-to-prolong-lead-acid-batteries

"Formatting is most important for deep-cycle batteries. They require 20–50 full cycles"

Further lead acid do best when discharge is limited to about 1/4 C.

I love li batteries but can't use them due to cold weather. I boondock at -34 F. My first battery bank was 875 amp-hours.

pianotuna wrote:

jwcolby54 wrote:
I found a very good youtube video on lithium vs lead acid. It is by an engineer who did extensive side by side testing in the lab where he could get consistent results for each battery type he tested. It is somewhat long but very thorough.

https://youtu.be/iy3hga_P5YY?si=tr2yG_na_vB5rHmQ

It was done at BattleBorn but the results are the same for other manufacturers.

Thanks for finding and posting this.

Unfortunately they did not cycle the lead acid batteries BEFORE testing.

Lead acid / agm are rated at 25 amps discharge, so testing at 40 amps is not a level playing field.

The low voltage cut out is interesting. I wonder if going to 10.5 UNDER load is the same as discharging capacity to 10.5 volts?

Last winter because of snow cover my house bank went to 8 volts. It has recovered nicely.

I do use my rv at -34 f so Li unfortunately won't be in my future.

Let me start by saying that I am not an EE, however my job for 15 years was fixing electronics, back in the day when a thorough understanding of all things electronics, schematics, o'scopes and soldering irons were the tools of my trade. So I understand this stuff fairly well.

The fact is that lead acid works quite well if you pretty much stay plugged in, or only use the battery for led lights and the water pump etc. Trying to put a high current long draw device on it is where lead acid fails rather spectacularly.

As for 25 amps vs 40 amps level playing field... there is no level playing field. One doesn't get a choice about current draw. Once doesn't get to "cycle before" etc. One turns on a device and one gets what one gets. The Puekert effect is real. Put a 2kw inverter on a lead acid and enjoy the show. Put it on a LiFePO4 and enjoy your hot coffee from your microwave. It really is as simple as that. Even several lead acid batteries in parallel will droop radically under heavy load. I know, I have watched it. Many electric devices do not enjoy trying to run at 11.9 volts which is a very real result of a very high current draw on lead acid.

Every tool has it's uses. Lead acid's use case is low current over long times. Or (for starter batteries) extremely high current over extremely short times. It is decidedly not extremely high current for more than a few seconds. Whatever you do, do not attempt to run an inverter higher than perhaps 500 watts on lead acid, and try to pull full power for long times.

One final thing, LiFePO4 simply doesn't care if you fully discharge it. Lead Acid will die rather quickly if you do that repeatedly.

Every tool has its place.

I ran into the same problem as you are. I have a coachman Concord 275DS. There's only enough room for one battery without extensive modifications that do not want to do. If You have the measurements of your battery box You can look at AGM's in the solar field. I put a battery called a mighty Max It was 135 amp hours that worked really well. Then I came into possession of a battery called NPP that is 155 amp hours. This was the biggest battery high-wise I could fit in my box that's in my step. The only modification I had to do was to extend the threaded rods for the safety strap. Now if I'm at a rest stop I don't have to worry about power. we can turn on this light or that light, we can be wasteful is the best way to put it. You do need to make sure that your converter can charge it at the right voltage which I believe is 14.6v, the one I have is just at the minimum and I haven't had any problems

jwcolby54 wrote:
I found a very good youtube video on lithium vs lead acid. It is by an engineer who did extensive side by side testing in the lab where he could get consistent results for each battery type he tested. It is somewhat long but very thorough.

https://youtu.be/iy3hga_P5YY?si=tr2yG_na_vB5rHmQ

It was done at BattleBorn but the results are the same for other manufacturers.

Thanks for finding and posting this.

Unfortunately they did not cycle the lead acid batteries BEFORE testing.

Lead acid / agm are rated at 25 amps discharge, so testing at 40 amps is not a level playing field.

The low voltage cut out is interesting. I wonder if going to 10.5 UNDER load is the same as discharging capacity to 10.5 volts?

Last winter because of snow cover my house bank went to 8 volts. It has recovered nicely.

I do use my rv at -34 f so Li unfortunately won't be in my future.

I found a very good youtube video on lithium vs lead acid. It is by an engineer who did extensive side by side testing in the lab where he could get consistent results for each battery type he tested. It is somewhat long but very thorough.

https://youtu.be/iy3hga_P5YY?si=tr2yG_na_vB5rHmQ

It was done at BattleBorn but the results are the same for other manufacturers.

path1 wrote:

IAMICHABOD wrote:

path1 wrote:

Yes, 4 winds builds them, but to Cruise America spec's

Don't know if all units has been 4 winds but Cruise America has sold over 26,000 units since 1970. Cruise America owns the Majestic brand.

One would think they have all the kinks worked out by now.

Over 40 years!

You would think so, but Cruise America started in 1972 and El Monte started in 1970. Both have selling them for a long time with many happy campers. :B

(Not splitting hairs) Here is where I found my info. http://blog.cruiseamerica.com/profiles/blogs/cruise-canada-rv-rentals

Do you have El Monte info? Please post if you do. Might come in handy at later date. Because of your question last summer concerning a blog or something for x-rental owners comes to mind. I don't know why that question is still in mind but it does.

Could also include Camping World, they've added to the mix last several years.

Not to be a hair splitter ether but we all have our resources,:B one came from This Article dated 2012 for their 40 year Anniversary and the other came from WIKIPEDIA

The info about El Monte RV came from their Website

The company was founded in 1970 by Ken Schork in the town of El Monte, California.
As you said, now in the mix is Camping World, so there is a wide array of options when buying A Ex Rental and to make a lot more happy campers

I think what you are thinking about last summer was someone suggested that a sticky be made up about owning or buying an Ex Rental.

IAMICHABOD wrote:

path1 wrote:

Yes, 4 winds builds them, but to Cruise America spec's

Don't know if all units has been 4 winds but Cruise America has sold over 26,000 units since 1970. Cruise America owns the Majestic brand.

One would think they have all the kinks worked out by now.

Over 40 years!

You would think so, but Cruise America started in 1972 and El Monte started in 1970. Both have selling them for a long time with many happy campers. :B

(Not splitting hairs) Here is where I found my info. http://blog.cruiseamerica.com/profiles/blogs/cruise-canada-rv-rentals

Do you have El Monte info? Please post if you do. Might come in handy at later date. Because of your question last summer concerning a blog or something for x-rental owners comes to mind. I don't know why that question is still in mind but it does.

Could also include Camping World, they've added to the mix last several years.

path1 wrote:

Yes, 4 winds builds them, but to Cruise America spec's

Don't know if all units has been 4 winds but Cruise America has sold over 26,000 units since 1970. Cruise America owns the Majestic brand.

One would think they have all the kinks worked out by now.

Over 40 years!

You would think so, but Cruise America started in 1972 and El Monte started in 1970. Both have selling them for a long time with many happy campers. :B

bigcitypopo wrote:
I did not Misspoke... 4 winds builds them for cruise america....

Yes, 4 winds builds them, but to Cruise America spec's

Don't know if all units has been 4 winds but Cruise America has sold over 26,000 units since 1970. Cruise America owns the Majestic brand.

One would think they have all the kinks worked out by now.

Over 40 years!

bigcitypopo wrote:
Yes, Crusie America, sells their rigs at 5yrs.... they do a good job of re-fitting... its a solid coach. mind you i am picky. I found the right one.

Glad to hear that you are happy with your Ex Rental, with the money you saved for your MIL you can do all these mods, Good Luck.