Blancing of Tires

C-Leigh Racing wrote:

FIRE UP wrote:
Roybuck,
Well, as you can see and read, about 99% of the folks balance tires on their coach. Now, just how and what method they use, is subjective. Many are trying the powders, beads, equal and whatever else is that type. Some are using the "Centramatic" balancing system. While many, including myself, use the old fashioned way of balancing, and that's the use of either clamp on or, stick on weights.

I've been driving now for, oh about 45 years and have probably had maybe ONE, weight either fall off or, was thrown off. So, the balancing method is up to you. But, let me throw one more item into the blend. One of the things that a very large amount of guys fail to either check on or, observe is, "out of round" tires. It happens more so on the larger, RV, big truck, type tires than it does on the smaller auto types.

It seems some of the manufacturers, even the big name ones, still, on occasion, FOREGET how to make tires round. I've seen that, many times in the past and, even recently. The last time I talked with Discount tire on the issue, they, (the most experienced tech there, at the time) told me that .060" was the max run-out that's allowed before they declare it an "Out of round tire". And, when that happens, they sh.. can the tire and, get a new one.

Now, if your tires have been on for a bit, and still have a zillion miles of tread left, there are places that "trim" or, "shave" the tires while on the coach, and make them perfectly round. From that point on, you need way less weight to balance that tire and, it rides absolutely smooth and flawless. You see, if you're riding around on eggs, (out of round tires), you can balancing them 'till your 100 years old, but, THEY'RE STILL OUT OF ROUND! You can't balance an egg.

It is rare that you find them but, it does still happen from time to time. And, it don't matter what kind of balancing system you use, an egg is an egg. So, this is just a bit more info for you to ponder. And, when you decide to balance, balance ALL OF THEM, INCLUDING THE REARS, EVEN WHEN IT'S A DUAL WHEEL SITUATION! The reason is, when you see how much weight is used to balance the fronts, what makes people think that each tire on the rear, is any different?

And, just because there's more weight, and more mechanism to suppress the out of balance issues on the rear, that does not stop the fact that, those out of balance, sometimes rather large tires, are still trying to shake things apart back there. It's just more wear and tear on the shocks, sway bar bushings, suspension parts and more when those rotating monsters are shaking. Good luck.
Scott

Now this is some words of truth & I've been down that road many times.

If you can find a tire shop has that cutter machine & a man has enough sense how to use it, the tires he cuts into round will roll as smooth as a radial tire on a car.
Case in fact, drove a COE International with 8 recaps on the rear, was beating me to death, took it in to get the tires cut round & that truck rode like a car on smooth highway.

If any of you know of tire shops that offer that tire cutting service, PLEASE list them so some of us can know where we can get them done.
Neil

There is a guy in the Charlotte, NC area who has a mobile tire truing service. He does a lot of work for Tom Johnson's in Concord. His first name is Roger.

Tire Truing

Balance ALL of your tires. All 6 ( or 8) of them

FIRE UP wrote:

J-Rooster wrote:
Roy, I had mine computer balanced when they were put on new last Fall! My tire guy who I trust told me out of all the tires he balanced in his lifetime he only had one set that were true from the factory? Good Luck, Rooster

About 99.9% of the tires that are balanced out there are computer balanced. Now, if you talk with the folks at Discount tire, they have some fancy names for different ways of computer balancing but, it's still COMPUTER BALANCING.

Then there's the alternate methods. Equal, balancing beads, centramatics, etc. I did try the "Balancing beads" one time. Things just didn't seem right for the first couple of hundred miles so, I did an experiment. I took the coach to a company already mentioned in my previous post. Once there, they spun up the right front tire, while it was on the coach. It about shook the windshield out when he got it to speed. So, he stopped it, removed the tire/wheel (19" on a Fleetwood Bounder, 34V) and dismounted the tire from the rim.

There he found the bag of beads, NOT BROKEN DOWN! The bag was still intact. There was no indication that the bag was EVER going to dissolve, like it was supposed to. So, that was a no-brainer. I told them to break down all the tires and wheels and remove all the "Balancing beads". He then trued each tire and wheel, rears too (by placing them on the front hubs temporarily) and when it was all said and done, there was very little weight that was needed for all of them. That coach road like glass from that point on.

Due to better quality and practices, out of round tires are ever so slowly, becoming a thing of the past but, that's not to say, won't ever happen. But, the possibility of having 4 or, 6, completely perfect, flawlessly balanced tires, right from the factory, especially on the large tire scale (i.e. 19" , 22.5" 24" etc.)is extremely rare.

To the OP, tire wear, vehicle ride quality and more is always improved if and when, tires are balanced. How you choose to do it, is of course, up to you.
Scott

Wait, BAGS?! The guy who did my tires didn't use bags...he scooped a handful of beads out of a 5-gallon bucket & dropped them into the tire!

Read this. We use it on Class 8 trucks and it works. I always think it's just ceramic BBs.
http://www.innovativebalancing.com/index.php

J-Rooster wrote:
Roy, I had mine computer balanced when they were put on new last Fall! My tire guy who I trust told me out of all the tires he balanced in his lifetime he only had one set that were true from the factory? Good Luck, Rooster

About 99.9% of the tires that are balanced out there are computer balanced. Now, if you talk with the folks at Discount tire, they have some fancy names for different ways of computer balancing but, it's still COMPUTER BALANCING.

Then there's the alternate methods. Equal, balancing beads, centramatics, etc. I did try the "Balancing beads" one time. Things just didn't seem right for the first couple of hundred miles so, I did an experiment. I took the coach to a company already mentioned in my previous post. Once there, they spun up the right front tire, while it was on the coach. It about shook the windshield out when he got it to speed. So, he stopped it, removed the tire/wheel (19" on a Fleetwood Bounder, 34V) and dismounted the tire from the rim.

There he found the bag of beads, NOT BROKEN DOWN! The bag was still intact. There was no indication that the bag was EVER going to dissolve, like it was supposed to. So, that was a no-brainer. I told them to break down all the tires and wheels and remove all the "Balancing beads". He then trued each tire and wheel, rears too (by placing them on the front hubs temporarily) and when it was all said and done, there was very little weight that was needed for all of them. That coach road like glass from that point on.

Due to better quality and practices, out of round tires are ever so slowly, becoming a thing of the past but, that's not to say, won't ever happen. But, the possibility of having 4 or, 6, completely perfect, flawlessly balanced tires, right from the factory, especially on the large tire scale (i.e. 19" , 22.5" 24" etc.)is extremely rare.

To the OP, tire wear, vehicle ride quality and more is always improved if and when, tires are balanced. How you choose to do it, is of course, up to you.
Scott

Roy, I had mine computer balanced when they were put on new last Fall! My tire guy who I trust told me out of all the tires he balanced in his lifetime he only had one set that were true from the factory? Good Luck, Rooster

When I had tires replaced on my Genesis, the tire guy didn't have a machine that could spin-balance Dayton wheels...he tossed a handful of balancing beads in each tire. Works perfectly, and I'd expect any truck tire shop has them.

I called around until I found a place that does big trucks, bus and rv tires, and they balance everything they mount.

Did the steer tires last fall and will do the drive tires next month.

Balance them. jmho

C-Leigh Racing wrote:

FIRE UP wrote:
Roybuck,
Well, as you can see and read, about 99% of the folks balance tires on their coach. Now, just how and what method they use, is subjective. Many are trying the powders, beads, equal and whatever else is that type. Some are using the "Centramatic" balancing system. While many, including myself, use the old fashioned way of balancing, and that's the use of either clamp on or, stick on weights.

I've been driving now for, oh about 45 years and have probably had maybe ONE, weight either fall off or, was thrown off. So, the balancing method is up to you. But, let me throw one more item into the blend. One of the things that a very large amount of guys fail to either check on or, observe is, "out of round" tires. It happens more so on the larger, RV, big truck, type tires than it does on the smaller auto types.

It seems some of the manufacturers, even the big name ones, still, on occasion, FOREGET how to make tires round. I've seen that, many times in the past and, even recently. The last time I talked with Discount tire on the issue, they, (the most experienced tech there, at the time) told me that .060" was the max run-out that's allowed before they declare it an "Out of round tire". And, when that happens, they sh.. can the tire and, get a new one.

Now, if your tires have been on for a bit, and still have a zillion miles of tread left, there are places that "trim" or, "shave" the tires while on the coach, and make them perfectly round. From that point on, you need way less weight to balance that tire and, it rides absolutely smooth and flawless. You see, if you're riding around on eggs, (out of round tires), you can balancing them 'till your 100 years old, but, THEY'RE STILL OUT OF ROUND! You can't balance an egg.

It is rare that you find them but, it does still happen from time to time. And, it don't matter what kind of balancing system you use, an egg is an egg. So, this is just a bit more info for you to ponder. And, when you decide to balance, balance ALL OF THEM, INCLUDING THE REARS, EVEN WHEN IT'S A DUAL WHEEL SITUATION! The reason is, when you see how much weight is used to balance the fronts, what makes people think that each tire on the rear, is any different?

And, just because there's more weight, and more mechanism to suppress the out of balance issues on the rear, that does not stop the fact that, those out of balance, sometimes rather large tires, are still trying to shake things apart back there. It's just more wear and tear on the shocks, sway bar bushings, suspension parts and more when those rotating monsters are shaking. Good luck.
Scott

Now this is some words of truth & I've been down that road many times.

If you can find a tire shop has that cutter machine & a man has enough sense how to use it, the tires he cuts into round will roll as smooth as a radial tire on a car.
Case in fact, drove a COE International with 8 recaps on the rear, was beating me to death, took it in to get the tires cut round & that truck rode like a car on smooth highway.

If any of you know of tire shops that offer that tire cutting service, PLEASE list them so some of us can know where we can get them done.
Neil

Well Neil,
Not really very close to you but, in El Cajon CA, there's a place called "Roger Daniels" auto repair. He does RV tires and any other tires. He did ours on the front of our previous coach, the Bounder and what a serious difference in ride. If you watch your tech do it, it gets a bit scary 'cause you see a pile of rubber sitting in front of each tire. You think, "heck, I'm not gonna have any rubber left when he's done". Well, that's not the case at all. He takes off only the high points.

As stated, when it's all done, the tire is most likely even "rounder" than one that didn't need it done. And, again like stated, you'll need way less weight. Another benefit is, because the tires have been "trued", they will (and there's proven cases of this) last longer due to smoother and more even tracking down the road and not trying to compensate for irregularities.

But, like you stated, it's becoming a "few and far between" profession. Not many can and do, handle that type of a machine. It really would be very nice if, a list was established from coast to coast, on who does it and where they're located. That way, if and when folks were out on the road and either needed a single replacement or, a whole set and, it's determined that one or more is out of round and no more of that size and type can be had, then truing is the only answer.
Scott

FIRE UP wrote:
Roybuck,
Well, as you can see and read, about 99% of the folks balance tires on their coach. Now, just how and what method they use, is subjective. Many are trying the powders, beads, equal and whatever else is that type. Some are using the "Centramatic" balancing system. While many, including myself, use the old fashioned way of balancing, and that's the use of either clamp on or, stick on weights.

I've been driving now for, oh about 45 years and have probably had maybe ONE, weight either fall off or, was thrown off. So, the balancing method is up to you. But, let me throw one more item into the blend. One of the things that a very large amount of guys fail to either check on or, observe is, "out of round" tires. It happens more so on the larger, RV, big truck, type tires than it does on the smaller auto types.

It seems some of the manufacturers, even the big name ones, still, on occasion, FOREGET how to make tires round. I've seen that, many times in the past and, even recently. The last time I talked with Discount tire on the issue, they, (the most experienced tech there, at the time) told me that .060" was the max run-out that's allowed before they declare it an "Out of round tire". And, when that happens, they sh.. can the tire and, get a new one.

Now, if your tires have been on for a bit, and still have a zillion miles of tread left, there are places that "trim" or, "shave" the tires while on the coach, and make them perfectly round. From that point on, you need way less weight to balance that tire and, it rides absolutely smooth and flawless. You see, if you're riding around on eggs, (out of round tires), you can balancing them 'till your 100 years old, but, THEY'RE STILL OUT OF ROUND! You can't balance an egg.

It is rare that you find them but, it does still happen from time to time. And, it don't matter what kind of balancing system you use, an egg is an egg. So, this is just a bit more info for you to ponder. And, when you decide to balance, balance ALL OF THEM, INCLUDING THE REARS, EVEN WHEN IT'S A DUAL WHEEL SITUATION! The reason is, when you see how much weight is used to balance the fronts, what makes people think that each tire on the rear, is any different?

And, just because there's more weight, and more mechanism to suppress the out of balance issues on the rear, that does not stop the fact that, those out of balance, sometimes rather large tires, are still trying to shake things apart back there. It's just more wear and tear on the shocks, sway bar bushings, suspension parts and more when those rotating monsters are shaking. Good luck.
Scott

Now this is some words of truth & I've been down that road many times.

If you can find a tire shop has that cutter machine & a man has enough sense how to use it, the tires he cuts into round will roll as smooth as a radial tire on a car.
Case in fact, drove a COE International with 8 recaps on the rear, was beating me to death, took it in to get the tires cut round & that truck rode like a car on smooth highway.

If any of you know of tire shops that offer that tire cutting service, PLEASE list them so some of us can know where we can get them done.
Neil