campground liability

One day in our "winter RV park" my progressive surge protector and my neighbors also started to switch OFF, resetting and then OFF again. We pulled our cables off the pedestal and measured the lines. L1=135 and L2= 105.
When the electric company came out,they found a badly burned Neutral at the transformer for a section of the park.
Progressive saved us.
Siggy

hanko wrote:
with voltages up and down as you described I would guess that the neutral or the grounded conductor was the cause, at the pedestal or the campground system. On a 240 volt 4 wire system that you have, interruption in the neutral will cause all kind of weird voltages.

Had this happen at the house once - neutral burned in two in the underground feeder to the house. Turn on the electric stove and the living room light turned on and several other anomalies, but nothing fried. The ground was steaming when they dug it up. Talk about weird . . . .

Maybe a loose neutral wire bolt in the pedestal? Mostly connected but not tight. Definitely qualified electrician material.

You might be able to "work" your connecting cable, box where wire enters the MH, pedestal outlet, pedestal, pedestal circuit breaker, pretty much anything you can put pressure on that might slightly move and monitor the "bad" side (with RV breakers off!). That might help zero in the location.

Best,
- bob

As stated a protection device will guard against neutral loss, so they say

with voltages up and down as you described I would guess that the neutral or the grounded conductor was the cause, at the pedestal or the campground system. On a 240 volt 4 wire system that you have, interruption in the neutral will cause all kind of weird voltages.

Thanks for the input. I was in error. I rechecked my notes I took from everyone that has been here and worked on things. 195 was the reading on one side and I do not know the reading on the other side. The transfer switch was replaced on the same day as the insides of the power pedestal. We are trying to figure out when we plugged into the neighbor's power why if there was a problem with our rv power things worked when plugged into another pedestal. The two converters that failed in the last few days we are just wondering what the chances of two next door to each other and one door down from us failing at the same time are. Just trying to figure it all out and understand the cause. Since we have a new transfer switch and a new converter is there anything else we should check or do to prevent future electrical problems? All GFI's are new. Wiring has been checked and triple checked by electricians. That is part of what is confusing the park electrician checked our RV and said everything was ok. That was after the rv techs checked and said it was all ok. The park had 3 electricians from same company over several weeks and they all checked everything and took it all apart and could find no problems in rv or pedestal. Thanks so much for all of your help.

kuckwood wrote:
There was no rental agreement. This is an old seasonal campground, very small with no rules.
Someone posted why had we not been working on this problem from the first. We were on it from day one .The first time it happened it was the converter that went out. Plus all the small appliances. Replaced converter and checked all electric. Everything was ok. Second time it happened two weeks later converter got fried plus all the new appliances. Replaced converter and everything again. Checked all electric at pedestal and in rv and everything was ok. First two times there was a heavy rain with standing water. Also pedestal has a tree right next to it and we thought it might have something to do with the tree roots. Plugged into neighbors pedestal that was on same loop and everything was fine.Third time was 2 weeks later again, no rain, daylight and converter was ok but there was the open neutral with the voltage on one side of rv at 195 and other side at 120. GFIs were all checked, power cord etc. This is when we called in yet another rv service man who persuaded campground owner to call electrician. Breaker was replaced in pedestal, meter replaced along with plug. It was then that transfer switch went out.So we are trying to figure out cause and everyone has different ideas. There was no lightening at all in the first two storms that involved standing water and heavy rains. In the third incidence the power was surging and went down to half when appliances were used which is how we caught the problem. Now today we find out that two converters near us on same loop have gone out. Coincidence or electrical problem? Our RV frig also died shortly after this and sound on tv went out. This is a great park except for this one problem. Owner is very elderly and wants us to pay for the electrician now and is not willing to talk about it and does not understand the electric issues anyway. We want to be able to stay here every summer and just want to make peace and do what is right. If it is our problem then ok we will pay but as a campground the cost of the electrician is an operating cost and can be used on taxes.

I do think you are responsible for the electrician since it was at your insistence they come out and apparently there was nothing wrong with the pedestal. A bad neutral in your transfer switch could easily cause all the problems you have had. The cost of an electrician is not an operating cost for a campground unless there is something wrong that needs to be fixed. Writing that cost off against taxes doesn't get the park owners their money back, at best it might save them 20% or so, since I seriously doubt this park makes the owners 100s of thousands of dollars profit a year.
On a different note, you are apparently getting either bad readings from your voltmeter or bad information from someone who is getting those readings for you. If there is a bad neutral, the sum of the two legs will still total to approximately 240 volts. One leg will be high and the other low. You would not have 195 volts on one leg and 120 volts on the other. If one leg was 195 the other would be around 45. Standing water should not effect anything, unless the pedestal was actually submerged up to the plugs. The wires to the pedestal by code would be rated for underground usage and the insulation would be waterproof.
You are giving conflicting information regarding the park's wiring. Sometimes you say everything is working (you plugged into your neighbors, it worked. You replaced your transfer switch and now everything works etc) Now you are saying others are having problems. Not sure what to believe. It sounds like it is time for you to move on. You are convinced the power is bad and it sure doesn't sound like you are going to be able to convince the owner to redo the entire loop, especially since the electrician said everything was fine. (an in my world an electrician would trump an RV repairman who may or may not have had any formal training in electrical systems.)

There was no rental agreement. This is an old seasonal campground, very small with no rules.
Someone posted why had we not been working on this problem from the first. We were on it from day one .The first time it happened it was the converter that went out. Plus all the small appliances. Replaced converter and checked all electric. Everything was ok. Second time it happened two weeks later converter got fried plus all the new appliances. Replaced converter and everything again. Checked all electric at pedestal and in rv and everything was ok. First two times there was a heavy rain with standing water. Also pedestal has a tree right next to it and we thought it might have something to do with the tree roots. Plugged into neighbors pedestal that was on same loop and everything was fine.Third time was 2 weeks later again, no rain, daylight and converter was ok but there was the open neutral with the voltage on one side of rv at 195 and other side at 120. GFIs were all checked, power cord etc. This is when we called in yet another rv service man who persuaded campground owner to call electrician. Breaker was replaced in pedestal, meter replaced along with plug. It was then that transfer switch went out.So we are trying to figure out cause and everyone has different ideas. There was no lightening at all in the first two storms that involved standing water and heavy rains. In the third incidence the power was surging and went down to half when appliances were used which is how we caught the problem. Now today we find out that two converters near us on same loop have gone out. Coincidence or electrical problem? Our RV frig also died shortly after this and sound on tv went out. This is a great park except for this one problem. Owner is very elderly and wants us to pay for the electrician now and is not willing to talk about it and does not understand the electric issues anyway. We want to be able to stay here every summer and just want to make peace and do what is right. If it is our problem then ok we will pay but as a campground the cost of the electrician is an operating cost and can be used on taxes.

I am sure if you read the rental agreement that you signed it contains a release of liability.

just get out of that campground-from-he**!

korbe wrote:
There is a legal process available to you after all the finger pointing is done.

Yeah, and it's expensive. Settle this "out of court" as legal fees would negate any future reimbursement you might receive.