Cost difference of propane vs electricity

Fiesta wrote:
Please remember electric is the most ineffecient energy source. There is a 60% line/transmission lose. Only 3415 BTU's per KW.
My house is all electric, due to being in the country. If I used propane my bills would be 10-25% less.
But if I converted to gas it would take 10 years just to get my investment back. We're going full time soon.
Rv'ing: I use propane to heat if I'm paying the utilities. If they are included in site rates I use electric.

First, you do not pay for the kwh you do not receive. Those losses are to the utility or transport company. For energy you receive, resistance electric heat is almost always 100% efficient. Not always cheap but efficient as all the energy goes into the area being heated. With heat pumps, they can be more than 100% and almost never any less than that.

For electric vs propane, the lowest cost option will always be a heat pump. Electric resistance heat vs propane is usually a wash with the advantage to electric for ease of refill or to propane for portability which ever is more important to you.

For home heating, natural gas as all those options beat hands down if you can get it. Was a time that rising gas costs were making heat pumps and gas heat similar but significant increases in availability of natural gas in the last few years shows that that will never be the case again in our lifetimes.

When it come to the cost of electricity, I use this.
http://michaelbluejay.com/electricity/howmuch.html
JR

Hi bsnmich,

We sell by the liter in Canada. No more imperial gallons.

Dutchstar02 wrote:
A gallon of propane is equal to 26.85 kilowatt hours.
At $0.17/kWh X 26.85 = $4.56 per gallon of propane
So as long as your propane costs less than $4.56/gallon it is cheaper to run on propane than electric.
I used strictly electric for a week and used about $18 of electric. I then switched the fridge and hot water heater to propane for a week and used less than $5 of electricity for everything else in the motorhome. The amount of propane used was about 2 gallons.
So the cost for the second week was 2 X $3.10 (propane in Yuma) = $6.20 + $5 = $11.20 VS $18 (that's per week). $27.20/month
You have to take into consideration how easy it is to get your propane refilled. We have a local company that delivers for the $3.10 per gallon used in the calculation. It's not a big difference but the fridge runs cooler and the water is hotter on propane.

Is that an Imperial gallon or US gallon. If you used the Canadian gallon you would have to use only 80% for the US equivalent. That also accounts for the price difference. Mississauga is by Toronto, Ontario.

Please remember electric is the most ineffecient energy source. There is a 60% line/transmission lose. Only 3415 BTU's per KW.
My house is all electric, due to being in the country. If I used propane my bills would be 10-25% less.
But if I converted to gas it would take 10 years just to get my investment back. We're going full time soon.
Rv'ing: I use propane to heat if I'm paying the utilities. If they are included in site rates I use electric.

I don't have heat pumps and do pay for electricity here in the park we spend the winter in - at $0.20 per KWh.
Propane cost here this year is $2.50 per gallon at this time.
To fill my external propane tank I load it in the trunk drive two blocks to the fill station.
So for us it is a no brainer to use propane.

You can download a small program HERE that will tell you which is cheaper. It allows you to enter appliance efficiency.

Depending on which operating system you use you may have to download a Microsoft program HERE to allow you to use the help file associated with the program.

In their infinite wisdom and considerable arrogance Microsoft decided to not include support for the old .HLP file format when they changed to the newer .chm format. The MS program adds that support back to Windows. It may be helpful to have it in place for other legacy programs you might use.

Back home in Port Orchard, Washington State I last bought propane for $2.29 a gallon at Arrow Lumber Yard on Bethel Rd.

Busskipper -

I would venture to say that most don't have a heat pump on the roof. Would be nice if we did, but that isn't the case. For newer units, this is becoming standard, but those of us with older coaches don't have them.

Barb

Dutchstar02 wrote:
A gallon of propane is equal to 26.85 kilowatt hours.
At $0.17/kWh X 26.85 = $4.56 per gallon of propane
So as long as your propane costs less than $4.56/gallon it is cheaper to run on propane than electric.
I used strictly electric for a week and used about $18 of electric. I then switched the fridge and hot water heater to propane for a week and used less than $5 of electricity for everything else in the motorhome. The amount of propane used was about 2 gallons.
So the cost for the second week was 2 X $3.10 (propane in Yuma) = $6.20 + $5 = $11.20 VS $18 (that's per week). $27.20/month
You have to take into consideration how easy it is to get your propane refilled. We have a local company that delivers for the $3.10 per gallon used in the calculation. It's not a big difference but the fridge runs cooler and the water is hotter on propane.

You made the assumption that the propane furnace/water heater/fridge are 100% efficient - -which they aren't. Assume that, if lucky, you'll get 75% efficiency and then recalculate.

Barb

Casinojunkie wrote:
Wish to find out which might be cheaper to operate when outside temps are the same.
Electricity cost at .17c per KW.
Hot water heater, (Atwood 10 gal. GC 10A-4E) is on only when needed, can be used with propane and/or electricity.
Furnace propane (Atwood model 85311VDCLP), also have electric ceramic 1500w space heater, If needed.
Hope I have given enough info.
Thanks

These post always amuse me, everyone thinks that the 1 to 1 ratio + a 100% efficiency, but there is so much more that needs to be taken into account.

Most of us have a Heat Pump on the roof of the RV -- this is generally 300 - 400% more efficient than an electric heater, so it might pay to use the heat pump when the air temps are beneficial (usually above 32 F)

Take a look at the Wikipedia definition;

Wikipedia - Heat Pump

"Heat pumps are used to provide heating because less high-grade energy is required for their operation than appears in the released heat. Most of the energy for heating comes from the external environment, and only a fraction comes from electricity (or some other high-grade energy source required to run a compressor). In electrically powered heat pumps, the heat transferred can be three or four times larger than the electrical power consumed, giving the system a Coefficient of Performance (COP) of 3 or 4, as opposed to a COP of 1 of a conventional electrical resistance heater, in which all heat is produced from input electrical energy.

When comparing the performance of heat pumps, it is best to avoid the word "efficiency", which has a very specific thermodynamic definition. The term coefficient of performance (COP) is used to describe the ratio of useful heat movement per work input. Most vapor-compression heat pumps use electrically powered motors for their work input. However, in many vehicle applications, mechanical energy from an internal combustion engine provides the needed work.
When used for heating a building on a mild day, for example 10 °C, a typical air-source heat pump (ASHP) has a COP of 3 to 4, whereas an electrical resistance heater has a COP of 1.0. That is, one joule of electrical energy will cause a resistance heater to produce only one joule of useful heat, while under ideal conditions, one joule of electrical energy can cause a heat pump to move much more than one joule of heat from a cooler place to a warmer place. Note that an air source heat pump is more efficient in hotter climates than cooler ones, so when the weather is much warmer the unit will perform with a higher COP (as it has less work to do). Conversely in extreme cold weather the COP approaches 1. Thus when there is a wide temperature differential between the hot and cold reservoirs, the COP is lower (worse)."

So lets just be smart in the use of the resources we have available, when making decisions on heating options. Hard to beat 300-400% when it comes to comparisons on what is the most efficient. Let's not forget the Heat Pump -- someday I suspect Manufacturers will realize the benefit and begin to use Mini Splits in the RV lines, the new 20-28 SEER units are even efficient down to ZERO degrees F, and they push a lot of good WARM air as much as twice the efficiency as the older units.

Just a thought.

JMHO,