E450 V10?

theoldwizard1 wrote:

Desert Captain wrote:

Jerseydevil wrote:
06' just hit 33,000. Sat all winter, oil changed a few weeks ago. Noticed a ping, chirp, sound, etc? from engine while on recent trip. All gauges were good and ran strong. Put some 93 octane in. Will see what happens.

Nothing. Adding 93 octane won't do a thing except cost you extra money.

Not true if it is a pre-ignition ping.

I always run premium in my 4.6L E150 when going through the Smokey mountains, towing or not.

Flat land out west and Smokey Mountains are about the same, now Rockies are something else.

theoldwizard1 wrote:

Desert Captain wrote:

Jerseydevil wrote:
06' just hit 33,000. Sat all winter, oil changed a few weeks ago. Noticed a ping, chirp, sound, etc? from engine while on recent trip. All gauges were good and ran strong. Put some 93 octane in. Will see what happens.

Nothing. Adding 93 octane won't do a thing except cost you extra money.

Not true if it is a pre-ignition ping.

I always run premium in my 4.6L E150 when going through the Smokey mountains, towing or not.

Nice to see that the myth of using higher octane to solve mechanical problems is still alive. :S

It doesn't. Google it.

Far more productive to find what is actually causing the problem and appropriately address it. Not sure about other motors but the V-10 runs just fine on 87 octane {regular} and never needs 93 octane.

:C

Desert Captain wrote:

Nice to see that the myth of using higher octane to solve mechanical problems is still alive. :S

30+ years of automotive engineering disagrees with you.

I qualified my response by saying "ping" from pre-ignition can be cured by higher octane. Why the pre-ignition is occurring is hard to diagnose, but likely it is from carbon build up inside the combustion chamber.

Higher octane fuel will not ignite until a higher in cylinder temperature is reached, such as an actual spark event nor just a "hot spot".

In my case, anecdotal evidence proves I am correct.

Camping Woody wrote:
If it sat all winter, did you put gasoline stabilizer in it and run it long enough to get through the system? If not, you might want to try your generator while you are at it.

For your original problem, I like to use a fuel system cleaner every now and then to avoid any build-up.

Yes and both were started up multiple times during winter.

If you have a scan gauge or something similar, you could check for codes.

theoldwizard1 wrote:

Desert Captain wrote:

Nice to see that the myth of using higher octane to solve mechanical problems is still alive. :S

30+ years of automotive engineering disagrees with you.

I qualified my response by saying "ping" from pre-ignition can be cured by higher octane. Why the pre-ignition is occurring is hard to diagnose, but likely it is from carbon build up inside the combustion chamber.

Higher octane fuel will not ignite until a higher in cylinder temperature is reached, such as an actual spark event nor just a "hot spot".

In my case, anecdotal evidence proves I am correct.

Nice job cherry picking my quote. "Ping" in a V-10, if in fact that is the problem, is not caused by running 87 octane gas. The V-10 was designed and engineered to run perfectly on 87 and running 93 is merely a waste of money misdirected at a problem that has not been addressed. The source of the problem needs to be identified and dealt with and buying 93 octane gas is at best a band aid solution. Like I said, Google it.

I did and here is an interesting article by a Ford engineer on the real impact of using the wrong octane:

http://oppositelock.kinja.com/the-real-impact-of-using-wrong-fuel-octane-1785829176

As always... Opinions and YMMV.

:C

What that engineer is saying is absolutely true for a new engine, not an old engine. He doesn't go into that, so I'll address it the best I can. So how does an engine change over time?

" So, if you put in a lower octane fuel, and then go drive your car hard, press the accelerator quickly, it is possible to experience heavy knock, and possible engine damage." Here he admits that knock can produce engine damage. This is how engines get there.

Lets say that a new engine from the factory is set with a compression ratio of 8.5. You usually won't hear any knock from a new engine with 87 octane fuel. But as engines age, they experience what engineers call "octane creep". This happens because the combustion chamber, valves, and the top of the pistons, get covered with combustion deposits that get thicker over time. When this happens, because the piston pulls in the same amount of air(roughly) it raises the compression ratio because the reduced area results in a higher pressure than when the engine was new. It typically starts at about 30-40 thousand miles, just like the op is complaining at 33,000 miles. So you start off with a new engine that runs fine on 87 octane, and a few years down the road you scratch your head and wonder why it's knocking. That engineer said that engine timing is set. The purpose of a knock sensor is to back the timing(and hurt gas mileage and power) to stop knocking(at least it use to be). So you start with a compression ratio of 8.5, but with the deposit build up it now 9.0. There are only two ways to address it; reduce the load, or go to higher octane. Myself, I don't want my engine knocking. A gasoline engine that knocks is trying to be a diesel, and it's not built for that. When fuel ignites in a combustion engine it burns, but when it knocks, it explodes. There is a huge difference in temperature and pressure when this happens. The real culprit is the poor quality of today"s fuel. Sometimes even 93 octane will not stop it. Myself, I give the engine what it asks for. This is especially important with the greater load our rigs impose on the engine. Myself, when my engine "talks" to me, I listen.

I'm with Desert Captain.... The V10 should not need higher octane, except to buy time until the proper repairs are made. Besides a contaminated MAF, a intake or vacuum leak can also cause it.

I've been running 89 for towing (22,000 combined) because I had intermittent pinging from a vacuum and/or EGR leak. Because of my high miles, I just had everything gone over at once, and I'm fairly confident I'll be able to tow with 87 octane again. At least until the temps rise. Above ~90F I still need 89 octane, because the program I run is fairly aggressive with the timing advance.

Just my experience here.. When mice ate the air filter element and the paper crumbs stuck to the mass air flow sensor, the vehicle would not run. After I cleand it out and determined the heater failed on the sensor, the vehicle ran ok but had very hard shifts and would ping slightly, premium gas helped some but not completely. New mass air flow sensor - no more ping with regular gas.