Electric Van hool coach. Predecessor to first elec cls A?

This might work for an airport rental car or distance parking lot pick up and drop off, a moderate speed local tour bus or a very specific public transit or school bus route but not a for revenue service. If the bus isn't moving it's not making money and being down for five hours after moving for four might not be a working solution for a large potion of the for profit operators.

For an RV application using this configuration recharging a depleted 600,000 watt battery bank from a CG 50 amp service will take at least 50 hours. 30 amp will take a week. Drive for 5 and recharge for 50. The summer vacation drive from upstate New York to Fort Wilderness that used to take 3 days will now take 12 days. Describing this as a predecessor to an EV class A is a bit like describing a 1908 Model T as predecessor to a 2020 Shelby GT500. It did happen but it took over 100 years to get there.

dodge guy wrote:
Maybe I missed it, but does it have solar panels to help it charge during the day driving. For RV use this would be great, for transportation I don’t see it working out, especially stop and go.

Let's say you managed to load 3kw of solar panels on the roof...you would expect maybe 12kwh into the batteries per day if there are no house loads...it would only take 56 days to charge the battery bank or a little over 5 miles of range per day. Assuming you are running pair of air/con

Not saying solar on an RV is bad but really for propulsion it's not really viable.

The opposite is more viable...assume you leave home on a full battery bank and go out 100miles to boondock. That will eat up around 225kwh and assuming a return trip propulsion will be around 450kwh for the weekend. That leaves around 225kwh in the battery bank unused. If you can redirect that to house loads, you can pull 3kw for 3 days continuous. That's generally going to be enough to keep a pair of air/con units going 24/7 for a long weekend with no generator usage.

Of course, we still don't know the assumptions for the 311mile range. It could be drastically less at freeway speeds and how much higher is the price compared to the equivalent diesel bus.

If it's equal cost and 311 miles is based on freeway speeds, it will likely be a winner...but I'm betting this is not the case.

garyemunson wrote:
Actually, "stop and go" is the electric vehicle's forte. Regenerative braking helps extend range and lower speeds are much more efficient for electric vehicles. Reno NV has a number of electric busses in their fleet. Not a city bus rider but took a short trip on one to see what it was like. The silence and lack of vibration was impressive. I'm waiting to see if the Lordstown Motors/CW joint venture works. CW will have to up their service game but with their connection with Good Sam parks to install chargers, there is the promise of actually being able to have a usable electric RV. It wouldn't work for everyone but an RV that could cover 300 miles on a charge would probably suffice for 80% of the RVers out there. We rarely exceed that on a normal day. We have been driving an electric car for almost 9 years now and have gotten quite used to "filling up" for about 1/3 the price of a fossil fuel vehicle. Often overlooked is the fact every morning you leave the house with a "full tank". A different experience from something that uses gas. It got even better 3 years ago when we installed solar on the house and started charging for free. You also appreciate the practically non-existent maintenance on an electric vehicle.

Hey Gary. Watcha drivin. :)

The public transit agency in Orlando has purchased several electric buses for use on their downtown circulator route. Perfect application for them. They run on streets in a dedicated lane by the curb. And the transit terminal is downtown, so they're easily switched out when charging is needed. Poor man's light rail without the overhead wire.

Actually, "stop and go" is the electric vehicle's forte. Regenerative braking helps extend range and lower speeds are much more efficient for electric vehicles. Reno NV has a number of electric busses in their fleet. Not a city bus rider but took a short trip on one to see what it was like. The silence and lack of vibration was impressive. I'm waiting to see if the Lordstown Motors/CW joint venture works. CW will have to up their service game but with their connection with Good Sam parks to install chargers, there is the promise of actually being able to have a usable electric RV. It wouldn't work for everyone but an RV that could cover 300 miles on a charge would probably suffice for 80% of the RVers out there. We rarely exceed that on a normal day. We have been driving an electric car for almost 9 years now and have gotten quite used to "filling up" for about 1/3 the price of a fossil fuel vehicle. Often overlooked is the fact every morning you leave the house with a "full tank". A different experience from something that uses gas. It got even better 3 years ago when we installed solar on the house and started charging for free. You also appreciate the practically non-existent maintenance on an electric vehicle.

I’ll take my Detroit Series 60 any day

dodge guy wrote:
Maybe I missed it, but does it have solar panels to help it charge during the day driving. For RV use this would be great, for transportation I don’t see it working out, especially stop and go.

Why not. 100s of thousands of electric buses get sold in the world every year.

Quebec is working on replacing their entire school bus fleet.

Maybe I missed it, but does it have solar panels to help it charge during the day driving. For RV use this would be great, for transportation I don’t see it working out, especially stop and go.

Typical CCS cabinets are around 55 grand for cabinet before install. You would have to see what a typical 8 station Supercharger site costs for install.

For the tour type camper like us (eg drive a day and stay 3 to 6 days while taking in the sites) I would think just renting two site would work. Or a site with two pedestals. Set the charge around 5 or 6 kw etc.

I wonder who would be the first integrator to make a Motorhome out of one of these. You know someone is going to do it. :).

BurbMan wrote:
Very cool, but what's the use case? 311 mile range then 5 hr recharge time needed, so obviously not for long haul routes. What happens to the range when you do a lot of start/stop like city driving? Would it go a whole day on a city route? I wonder what the purchase cost is vs. diesel?

I would love to see these in crowded areas like airports and downtowns.

This is a motor coach geared towards tour companies (think student groups going to Disney World or old folks on a fall color tour). It's not a city transit bus. So city stop & go driving isn't very critical (though assuming regenerative braking, it should actually be great at stop & go)

I agree a use case is critical. 311 mile range means a round trip peaks at around 150miles. I would be interested to know is that 311 mile range based on 70mph cruising on the freeway? Typically, higher speeds result in shorter range for EVs.

I could see a tour bus company keeping a small number for shorter routes but not really practical for say a St. Louis to Washington highschool trip. Also a 70mph top speed will be an issue for many companies...sure it's illegal but been passed many times by buses doing 80mph...and where do they charge once at the destination?

Also, it's not just the cost of the bus but how much will a 125kw charging station cost to install at the home terminal? That's about 1050amp @ 120v supply for each bus. Now imagine a small operation with 10 buses and you are looking at 10,500amp service (obviously, they might go to a higher voltage to cut amperage in practice) but that's a very expensive upgrade....as in tens of thousands of dollars. Even if you assume slower charging, it's still wildly expensive to install chargers.

Maybe a modified version used for city tours (think the grayline tours in major cities). They generally don't go a lot of miles and at slow speeds, wind resistance is down. Then the bus goes to a home yard for the night.

Looping back to RVs...once it's in production, it's equivalent to a high end diesel pusher chasie. 300mile range in a day will serve a lot of RV buyers. The issue is charging. A 30amp is pretty much a non-starter with house loads eating up most of the available power. A 50amp can put out around 9kw continuous (12kw is short term peak load). Assuming house loads average 2kw, that leaves 7kw for charging. To fill a 676kwh battery bank is going to make overnight stops doable but campground owners may not be happy about it. At $0.20/kwh, that's $135 in electricity. On a $50/n sites, that's not a winning economic opportunity.

It would be really nice to hear what the price is. If it's pretty close to a DP chasie, it could be a winner but if it's a $50-100k upgrade, it might work for a commercial operation where the bus is on the road 8-10hr per day every day but much harder to justify for a MH that sits 9 out of 10 days.