Fun / Projects / with my 1997 America Dream

Glenn, always come to your thread and learn something new, thanks so much for posting all your "projects"

Please keep them coming

Rob

going to buy me one of those weather pak connector kits, thanks!!!!

I have mentioned several times in several of my posts that I really like Weather Pack Connectors, so I thought I would show you what they are.

I did not buy an assortment, but went to a local fastener store and picked what I wanted.



But assortments are available, here is one sold by Jegs.

I am also showing four tools, but you really only need the crimper and the yellow handle barrle tool which I will explain later.

The crimp tool is available in a lot of different places, here is one.

This crimp tool has interchangeable jaws so you can do many different style crimps, here

and finally the three piece tool kit, you really only need the yellow handled barrel tool.

This is what you start with, a connector, and they come one, two, three, four, five, and six positions in on connector.

A crimp terminal, they come male and female and in different weights to handle different gauge wire, although I have used the light gauge for up to 12 gauge wire.

A seal and they come in different sizes to handle different gauge wire, you can use the small ones on large wire as they are flexible, they are just harder to get on the wire.

And finally the wire you want to connect.



You set it all together, I use my fingers to squeeze the tangs to hold the seal in place which holds the wire in the correct place. Makes easier to get the setup into the crimper.



Set the whole setup into the jaws of the crimper.



and in one operation the tool crimps the wire and the seal in place.



You remove the terminal from the crimper tool and you are now ready to insert it into the connector.



It just pushes into the connector, there are a set of reverse tangs on the terminal that locks it into the connector.



You now have a weather tight connection. You fold over the top and the connector is ready to go.





Now you say oh darn I put it in the wrong position!

The first thing you do is use the green handled tool, or a small screw driver to release the clips holding the end folded down on the connector and flip it back up.

This is when you need the yellow handled barrel tool.



This tool slides into the connector over the top of the terminal compressing the reverse tangs that have the terminal locked into the connector.



While the yellow handled tool is slid into the connector with the reverse tangs compressed you can now pull the terminal back out of the connector.



and slid it back into the connector in any position you would like.

The positions are labeled a, b, c, d, e etc. on both the male and female connectors, and are usually marked on circuit diagrams.



Just my two cents.

Ok...I'm sure everyone is waiting with batted breath.

I did find the Air Inlet Temperature Sensor



and it did have the correct color coded wires.

I have said this before, I love weather pack connectors, you can make up what ever you need, they can be taken apart and rebuild another way. In this case I needed to connect the red and yellow wires to test if the Air Inlet Temperature Sensor was the problem.

This is the shut plug I made up.



And now for the test, I fired up the engine with the sensor unplugged, the fan ran full speed, I plugged in my shut plug and the fan slowed right down.

Success.



So now is the question will the fan run up to speed when the coolant reaches 195?

Strangely enough I cannot answer that.

I ran the engine at 1,500 RPM for 30 minutes and the temperature gauge never went above 170. I let it run while I greased every grease fitting under the Motor Home, still never went above 170. I loaded the Motor Home with stuff for our trip to Bowling Green, still did not go above 170.

I took the Motor Home for a drive all the way around the outer loop of Rochester (30 miles) still did not go above 170.

I started to suspect the gauge was bad, drove to my home and got an infrared heat gun, and went all over the engine. The highest temperature I got was 175.

I have said in the past this radiator and fan are huge. Apparently on a 75 degree day the fan running at slow speed moves enough air to keep the engine cool.

The real test will come when we drive to Bowling Green pulling the trailer.

It is a simple fix to get the fan to come back on if it does over heat, just remove the shut plug.

The air inlet temperature sensor may have been found.

A member (Ivylog) here pointed out that there is a sensor depicted in the upper left corner of the drawing below.

GlennLever wrote:

DrewE wrote:

That is the symbol for a diode, though in this case they placed it inside a sort of rough representation of the physical package its in. The actual diode symbol is the black triangle with the line at its apex in the middle of the bigger symbol. Current flows when the triangle end (the anode) is more positive than the line end (the cathode) and does not flow the other way around. (Technically, the anode must be more positive than the cathode by whatever the forward voltage of the diode is, which depends on its exact design and materials. Somewhere in the vicinity of half a volt is typical.)

In this circuit, the diode is almost certainly being used as a snubber for the solenoid's coil, to keep the voltage and current spikes that it produces when it is switched off from propagating back to the switches in the sensors and other connected circuitry. You can pretty much ignore it in analyzing the circuitry. Note that it is oriented such that it only conducts when the red wire is negative with respect to chassis ground, so it's reverse biased (not conducting) in the normal steady-state modes of operation, assuming these are typical 12V circuits.

So in this diagram, red is positive? That would seem to be a short,
I do understand that electrons flow from negative to positive

I don't know offhand whether the red wire would typically be positive or ground. In order for the diode to conduct, it needs to have a voltage below ground—be negative with respect to ground—which of course you won't generally find with a typical 12V negative ground circuit. It would not be conducting in steady-state operation. (When it does conduct, it is intended to short circuit to ground the voltage from the power stored by the inductance of the coil, rather than for instance causing an arcing in the switch contacts or whatever that opened to turn off the solenoid.)

Which direction the electrons themselves flow is not all that important here. The symbol for the diode sort of suggests that the charge carriers flow from positive to negative, opposite actual electron flow. Within the diode itself, the physics are a bit more complicated than just electrons moving along, too; but one doesn't need to understand that to analyze the circuitry.

DrewE wrote:

GlennLever wrote:

I believe this symbol is for a diode, but have forgotten how to read it, I believe the current flows in the direction of the arrow inside the symbol??? Help??? That does not make sense as as there are arrows pointing in both directions.

That is the symbol for a diode, though in this case they placed it inside a sort of rough representation of the physical package its in. The actual diode symbol is the black triangle with the line at its apex in the middle of the bigger symbol. Current flows when the triangle end (the anode) is more positive than the line end (the cathode) and does not flow the other way around. (Technically, the anode must be more positive than the cathode by whatever the forward voltage of the diode is, which depends on its exact design and materials. Somewhere in the vicinity of half a volt is typical.)

In this circuit, the diode is almost certainly being used as a snubber for the solenoid's coil, to keep the voltage and current spikes that it produces when it is switched off from propagating back to the switches in the sensors and other connected circuitry. You can pretty much ignore it in analyzing the circuitry. Note that it is oriented such that it only conducts when the red wire is negative with respect to chassis ground, so it's reverse biased (not conducting) in the normal steady-state modes of operation, assuming these are typical 12V circuits.

So in this diagram, red is positive? That would seem to be a short,
I do understand that electrons flow from negative to positive

GlennLever wrote:

I believe this symbol is for a diode, but have forgotten how to read it, I believe the current flows in the direction of the arrow inside the symbol??? Help??? That does not make sense as as there are arrows pointing in both directions.

That is the symbol for a diode, though in this case they placed it inside a sort of rough representation of the physical package its in. The actual diode symbol is the black triangle with the line at its apex in the middle of the bigger symbol. Current flows when the triangle end (the anode) is more positive than the line end (the cathode) and does not flow the other way around. (Technically, the anode must be more positive than the cathode by whatever the forward voltage of the diode is, which depends on its exact design and materials. Somewhere in the vicinity of half a volt is typical.)

In this circuit, the diode is almost certainly being used as a snubber for the solenoid's coil, to keep the voltage and current spikes that it produces when it is switched off from propagating back to the switches in the sensors and other connected circuitry. You can pretty much ignore it in analyzing the circuitry. Note that it is oriented such that it only conducts when the red wire is negative with respect to chassis ground, so it's reverse biased (not conducting) in the normal steady-state modes of operation, assuming these are typical 12V circuits.

Noticed my hydraulic radiator fan is running all the time.

Gillig tells me that there is a sensor to control the fan solenoid.

Gillig sent me a circuit diagram for a 1994 bus with rear battery box an run box (I am a 1996 chassis for a 1997 Motor Home)



The color codes on the wires at the fan solenoid are not correct.



If I feed 12V and ground to the fan solenoid the fan slows down right away, remove the 12 v and it speeds up.

This is the fan solenoid



It control hydraulic pressure to the fan



Gillig supplied the sensor location.



Wire color codes are correct here. But the wires leading into the harness at the fan solenoid are different.

If I supply 12v to the yellow and ground to the black nothing happens.

Ok, I have heard back from Gillig with a new diagram.

Color codes on this diagram are correct.

There is an additional sensor between the coolant temperature sensor and the fan solenoid. (Air Inlet Fan Temp REF 51-15885-000)



I have asked the parts guy, Rick, to give me the location of this sensor, and part availability?

I suspect that as a temporary fix I could tie the Yellow and Red wires running into the Air Inlet Fan Temp together (no cutting, I have the weather pack connectors and can make a shut plug).

The fan should then operate as depicted in the earlier circuit diagram.




I could get this done before the trip to Bowling Green and install the part when I return.

I would feel much better with this working correctly.

I believe this symbol is for a diode, but have forgotten how to read it, I believe the current flows in the direction of the arrow inside the symbol??? Help??? That does not make sense as as there are arrows pointing in both directions.

So...time to start making the repairs on items that broke on this last trip, seems like something has to break on every trip.

Item number one is the outside steps.

These steps were repaired multiple times by Caledonia RV and have failed again.

The steps would come out but would not retract, when trying to retract you could hear the gears grinding.

For the trip, I unplugged the power to the motor and wire tied them in the up position.

(sorry for the poor image quality I shot these with my phone camera)





When we arrived I cut the wire ties and we were able to use the steps.

These are Kwikee 28 series steps



I ordered both the motor and the gear box from American coach.



But only received the motor, called them and was told the gear box which they call the linkage was $70.00 more.

While on the phone waiting I Googled Kwikee 28 series and found this.



At a price of $299.97 with $9.99 shipping it did not make sense to order the motor and the linkage and spend the time to strip and powder coat the steps.

When I got the American Coach customer service rep on the phone I ask what their price was for the whole set of steps and was told $350.00 but they did not have it in stock.

So the moral of the story is if you have a problem with our steps you might consider replacing the whole unit rather that some of the parts.

I did verify with PPL that the steps are complete with motor, gear box, controller and light.

I will have these sitting on the garage floor until a week from Monday as they are coming from Texas and there is a holiday next week.



That will give me time to work on the other problem (radiator fan running all the time). More on that later.

So, discovered a new problem as I am getting ready to leave to go racing in the New England NHRA Hot Rod Reunion.

The radiator fan is running all the time. It is supposed to come on as needed. This fan pushes a HUGE amount of air. You can hear it from the drivers seat (remember this is a diesel pusher with a rear mounted side mount radiator.

This motor home is on a Gillig chassis, and the people at Gillig are extremely helpful.

There are several parts to this system. dual temp warning switch 51-23245-000 $84.99ea in stock fan, valve solenoid 12V part# 53-29242-003 (originally 53-29242-001) $243.77ea in stock. Solenoid part# 82-47379-000 $76.85ea in stock. The hydraulic fan motor which I did not ask the price on and I'm sure is sky high.

Gillig provided the wiring diagram.



and in the upper left corner is the circuitry for the fan.



I crawled under the Motor Home this evening (after dark) with a flash light and my phone camera and found the fan, valve solenoid 12V part# 53-29242-003. This thing will be a bear to get to, I hope this is not the problem.



It looks like it sends hydraulic pressure to the hydraulic fan motor to turn it on and off. The small hose going into the side of the fan motor.



I cannot impress on you just how large this multi-bladed fan is and just how much air it moves. The picture does not convey the size of this thing.

Gillig sent the location of the sensor.



The diagram certainly makes it look easy to get to.

I did find it. This is the back side of the piping where the sensor is located, the three wire plug is the plug for the sensor.



This is the other side of the piping you just saw. The sensor is just under the two green wires sort of in the center of the picture.



I have been advised that I can drive the motor home with the fan running all the time so I will make this trip and when I return will diagnose and figure out what parts I need to fix this problem