As we continue to shop for our new rig to start full time next year I keep teetering on gas vs diesel. (sort of full time - 6 mons at a time, break for a month, 6 months out...) My only real life experience is with gassers. We've had 2 and very entry level. While we loved both coaches and they served as great weekenders, one of our biggest complaints was ride quality. The harsh road feedback and the noise. Very loud and hard to hold a conversation. Both MH's were ACE's and poorly insulated (if at all) and light which I think worsened the harshness of the ride. Our budget puts us at a fairly new but used high end gasser, or a 4-6 year old used entry level DP (Excursion, Palazzo, Sportscoach etc) I don't want to go any older. I am aware of the difference in how a DP rides vs gasser, night and day. But what about a higher end gasser - like a Newmar or Tiffin ? Do they ride smoother and more quiet than an entry level coach despite being on the same F53? And how dramatic is the difference between say a Canyon star or Allegro than an entry level DP? Do all DP's ride pretty much the same or do higher end DP's ride better than entry level ones? I know I need to take some test rides and that was my plan, but as we all know doing that right now has been difficult. There's also the question of if I need a DP at all. Our travel days will be relatively short (that's the plan anyway), and stays longer. But despite loving our previous coaches, they were a nightmare to be in while riding, and I am really concerned about ride comfort. And as we all know, plans often change and we may find ourselves with occasional long days in the saddle. I should also add I know very little about diesels. Not that I did a lot of maintenance on our gassers, but at least I was able to do standard stuff. Anything house related - I am good. Appreciate the thoughts.

way2roll wrote:I am aware of the difference in how a DP rides vs gasser, night and day. But what about a higher end gasser - like a Newmar or Tiffin ? Do they ride smoother and more quiet than an entry level coach despite being on the same F53? And how dramatic is the difference between say a Canyon star or Allegro than an entry level DP? Do all DP's ride pretty much the same or do higher end DP's ride better than entry level ones? I know I need to take some test rides and that was my plan, but as we all know doing that right now has been difficult. ...There's also the question of if I need a DP at all. Our travel days will be relatively short (that's the plan anyway), and stays longer. Lot's of questions ! No real world experience, but IMHO, I don't think the extra cost of a DP is worth it for you, especially based on your last statement.Besides the new engine and transmission that is coming for the F53, Ford has done other chassis upgrades. These likely will not show up until the 2021MY MH start shipping, which could be as late as spring of 2021.Watch this video Ford 7.3L and F53 chassis

I've had many gassers and a few diesels. IMO, gassers are great for weekends and going to football games and Nascar. Full timing..not so much. We went from a 29' Winnebago to a 40' diesel and have never looked back. The ride was so much more comfortable and quiet. We have never turned the radio on in our coach as we like to actually talk to each other when traveling so to be able to do that without the roar was nice. The difference in ride and handling come from the weight of the coach as you'll find the diesels are much heavier. That said, when we finally did go full time, we upgraded to the 45' with a tag axle. THAT made a world of difference too. No more being pushed around while on the road. Remember things change as you full time. We 'wasted' the first year by going to places we 'always' wanted to see. Then the light bulb came on and we then just traveled and saw what was "out there". We've put over 100,000 miles on our coach mostly staying a couple weeks in one spot although we did try camp hosting for a couple years too. As far as Newmar and Tiffin, they are still on the same chassis as say a Winnie. Their fit and finish might be a little better but the ride is only as good as the chassis they sit on. To me, the pleasure of the drive is just as important as the pleasure when you arrive at a destination. Arriving somewhere refreshed is so much nicer than arriving harried. Go look at some of the gassers and diesels and make your own conclusions. Remember the old adage though, "Don't drive a diesel unless you have your checkbook with you". You'll find many 5-6 year old diesels that look and drive like they're brand new. Ours was a repo, a year old, when we bought her. Saved almost $350k off list.....Dennis

Difficult selection. The newer gas rigs are getting pretty close to the mid priced diesel concerning the house side living amenities. A Newmar Canyon Star or a Tiffin Open Road Allegro will give a entry level DP a run for the money once parked at the campsite. The DP will out class a gas rig when going down the road but considering the ratio of time parked as compared to time actually moving it makes the decision all the more difficult.If I was considering going full time then a diesel pusher, part time it's a flip of a coin while weekends are for gasoline.

Just my humble opinion hereWe have had three diesels. They first was weak and you had to get up a head of steam going down the hill in order to get up the other side without dropping into low. It was a Cummins, I believe a 220 or such. We kept it for 6 months or so and sold it back to John Bleakley Motorhomes and bought a new coach with a 300 Cat engine. Great ride as well. It cruised well on the interstates when we were traveling in the west a lot. Best coach for the money we ever owned. Then the last diesel was a 40 footer with the 425 Cummins. Very good ride but loved that diesel fuel. Too heavy actually.My wife has MS and got to the point where it was impossible for her to get in and out of the steps on it. We decided to stop RVing for that reason. We talked one day and both admitted how much we missed it. I started looking and found the present coach, a gasser, with a wheel chair lift and handicap features. I believe Newmar considers the Canyon Star their top of the line gasser. While it looks good and has all the features that makes it easy for a handicap person to use, the ride is not what we had with the last two diesels. I said all that to say this. If your future involves a lot of long days and long travels in mountainous country, buy the niecest diesel your budget will allow. Short journeys and such, buy quality a quality gasser and save a lot of money.

You need to look at the way you use an RV to make your final decision. We have friends that only travel from the North to the South as the season changes. In the meantime they are parked and living in the coach. In other words, their coach spends very little time on the road going from destination to destination. I'm guessing that they May only put 4000 miles per year on their RV.On the other hand we spend very little time parked at any one location. The longest we have ever spent at one location was two weeks. For us the yearly mileage was closer to 20,000+. If you are one of those that does not plan on traveling a lot and racking up the miles, I would go with gas. If you plan to be on the move regularly, then diesel may be a better choice. Naturally the MAIN thing to consider is whether or not the "house" is comfortable and suits your needs when you are parked.

High end gasser or entry level DP | Good Sam Community

tropical36
Explorer
May 11, 2020
way2roll wrote:
wolfe10 wrote:
What this thread reinforces is that there is no IDEAL coach for everyone.

Choose what meets YOUR needs, not what others have chosen to meet theirs.

No different than choosing a home, a car or most other things.

Agree, getting input on how others have made the best decision for THEM can certainly help-- again the same for choosing a car, etc.

I wasn't asking for someone to make my decision for me. I know what my needs are. I was asking for information on the differences in ride, amenities and quality between a high end gasser and an entry level DP, Having not been in many pushers I thought folks on here would provide some insight.

IMO and from what I've seen, a high end gasser and an entry level DP are pretty much equal, except for the ride and just as long as the DP has air bags. In that dept. there shouldn't be any comparison, between riding on air vs flexing steel. Then there's the engine noise between the driver and passenger which is pretty obvious.
I think the biggest thing that amazes me with our first Diesel here, is the low end torque, that it has. I mean, here we are, cranking a measly 1500rpm, while carrying all this weight, as well as pulling a fairly heavy toad up miles of 6% grades or more, without a sweat.
This vs a screaming banshee, right next to you, trying to accomplish the same thing, which it still can't do, in many cases.
way2roll
Navigator II
May 11, 2020
wolfe10 wrote:
What this thread reinforces is that there is no IDEAL coach for everyone.

Choose what meets YOUR needs, not what others have chosen to meet theirs.

No different than choosing a home, a car or most other things.

Agree, getting input on how others have made the best decision for THEM can certainly help-- again the same for choosing a car, etc.

I wasn't asking for someone to make my decision for me. I know what my needs are. I was asking for information on the differences in ride, amenities and quality between a high end gasser and an entry level DP, Having not been in many pushers I thought folks on here would provide some insight.
tropical36
Explorer
May 10, 2020
wolfe10 wrote:
What this thread reinforces is that there is no IDEAL coach for everyone.

Choose what meets YOUR needs, not what others have chosen to meet theirs.

No different than choosing a home, a car or most other things.

Agree, getting input on how others have made the best decision for THEM can certainly help-- again the same for choosing a car, etc.

You got that right and for us with houses, it was always location, location, location.
For cars, it was quality first, within our budget and as a result, have only bought one new one in my lifetime and that was a mistake, even though, many would say, it was too good a deal to pass up.
I've never bought a new RV or boat either, but never entry level.
wolfe10
Explorer
May 10, 2020
What this thread reinforces is that there is no IDEAL coach for everyone.

Choose what meets YOUR needs, not what others have chosen to meet theirs.

No different than choosing a home, a car or most other things.

Agree, getting input on how others have made the best decision for THEM can certainly help-- again the same for choosing a car, etc.
Rikilee
Explorer
May 10, 2020
I went through a similar thought process last year. We wanted to full time, wasn't 100% sure how long or if we would like it. We owned MH's since the 80's. I considered purchasing a fairly new DP or gas. I considered the cost and availability of service, repairs, performing my own general maintenance. I thought about resale if we decided we didn't want to continue full time and wanted to purchase another house.

My decision was to purchase a good MH that we would be comfortable in for 2 years of full time. The price range was set so if we decided not to continue, we could justify the cost and resale value. After 2 years we will know exactly what we need. If we continue to full time we will upgrade and purchase our ideal unit.
way2roll
Navigator II
May 08, 2020
Wanderlost wrote:
Our personal experience:

We had a 32' Itasca Sunrise for 14 years, which came loaded with everything Winnebago could put on a gasser. Lived in it for a while after retirement. Loved that MH with a passion. It was somewhat noisy, but after we did a little extra insulation in the roof cap, it was fine. Ride was very smooth after we installed Bilstein shocks. The overall quality of that MH was truly amazing to us.

We traded her in, very reluctantly, for a 2018 Winnebago Forza 34T, and our shakedown cruise was to Alaska and back. The ride is smooth, yes, but a good wind or a passing semi on a two-lane road will knock her around even worse than the Sunrise. We're having to install some kind of stabilizer to stop that. As for noise, it's just as loud as the Itasca was. Why? Because Winnebago Does. Not. Install. Insulation. in the front cap. Zip. Nada. We will have to do it ourselves again. The storage is not near as good as it was in the Itasca, and the overall layout is not near as comfortable. I really do like the fireplace, though. Finally, the 34T can't pull anything heavier than could the Sunrise (both limited to 5000 lbs), so why did we even bother?

The cons of this MH over our beloved Sunrise are too many to mention. Frankly, if I could, I'd get my old Sunrise back and lose the diesel MH. I'm honestly not seeing the overall value.

If I were in your shoes, I'd go for a used high end gasser, one that can pull a toad heavier than 5000 lbs if you need it. Good luck in whatever you choose.

Great feedback, Thanks! That's really the overarching question. Does an entry level DP handle and ride quieter and more comfortably than a high end gasser? Otherwise, why spend the money. Once things loosen up I am really looking forward to driving lots of both back to back for a true comparison. I can tell you our ACEs were miserable to drive. Loud and rough is an under statement. It felt like we were in a bombing raid. But they were as entry level as you could get.

BTW - love your Gandhi quote - my wife has that on a T-shirt.
Wanderlost
Nomad II
May 08, 2020
Our personal experience:

We had a 32' Itasca Sunrise for 14 years, which came loaded with everything Winnebago could put on a gasser. Lived in it for a while after retirement. Loved that MH with a passion. It was somewhat noisy, but after we did a little extra insulation in the roof cap, it was fine. Ride was very smooth after we installed Bilstein shocks. The overall quality of that MH was truly amazing to us.

We traded her in, very reluctantly, for a 2018 Winnebago Forza 34T, and our shakedown cruise was to Alaska and back. The ride is smooth, yes, but a good wind or a passing semi on a two-lane road will knock her around even worse than the Sunrise. We're having to install some kind of stabilizer to stop that. As for noise, it's just as loud as the Itasca was. Why? Because Winnebago Does. Not. Install. Insulation. in the front cap. Zip. Nada. We will have to do it ourselves again. The storage is not near as good as it was in the Itasca, and the overall layout is not near as comfortable. I really do like the fireplace, though. Finally, the 34T can't pull anything heavier than could the Sunrise (both limited to 5000 lbs), so why did we even bother?

The cons of this MH over our beloved Sunrise are too many to mention. Frankly, if I could, I'd get my old Sunrise back and lose the diesel MH. I'm honestly not seeing the overall value.

If I were in your shoes, I'd go for a used high end gasser, one that can pull a toad heavier than 5000 lbs if you need it. Good luck in whatever you choose.
way2roll
Navigator II
May 08, 2020
DW and I are really liking what we see in the Winnie/Itasca - Forza/Solei lineup. I think the fit and finish is better than a lot of entry level DP offerings (Pallazzo, Sportscoach, FR Legacy, FW Excursion), a few of the floor plans would work. The price point is a little higher than we initially budgeted, but still significantly less than Newmar or Tiffin. I like Tiffin and Newmar but they just don't offer floor plans that would work, or decor we like. In the past few years, Winnie has stepped up their game to offer a more modern decor. I feel like Newmar and Tiffin still gravitate to a more traditional style - nothing wrong with that, but it's not for us. And they are highest price of all the brands - sans custom.
FloridaRosebud
Explorer
May 08, 2020
way2roll wrote:
timjet wrote:
From the title of this thread, I would never buy an entry level anything. You must determine gas or diesel but consider you can afford a DP and a quality one if you go back enough years. We purchased a 10 yo quality DP and had it inspected, especially the chassis, and have not been disappointed. The ride is soft and comfortable, conversation easy even after almost 100,000 miles.
2007 and earlier eliminates the DPF and DEF hassles.

What you are saying makes sense and I had thought of going older to get a higher quality coach. The issue is floorplans. A high end DP older than 7 years doesn't have the floorplans to support 3 adults (2 parents and a 17 yr old) and a work space (I work remote full time) to full or even part time. Seems like all the higher end units - even newer ones- cater to 2 people only. Entry level DP's seem to cater more toward families. Of the hundreds of floorplans I have scoured in coach years over the past decade, there are really only a few that will work for us. I had even thought of going with a 15-20 yr old Prevost and gutting it to make it what I want but, I don't have the time, the space, or the ambition for a project like that. While quality is important, our hierarchy is floorplan, reliability, then comfort and quality. There is also the thought that a 10 yr old coach will start to need mechanical things replaced/fixed sooner than a 5 yr old one. What is in our budget and floorplans are high end gassers or an entry level DP's. All that said, DW and I have started looking more into the mid level DP's. They seem to hit most of what we are after but they start to creep out of our initial budget. We may be changing our budget. I don't want to have regrets with this coach, wishing we should have spent a little more to get that coach we liked more than the one we bought.

On edit - there is also the issue of financing. Originally we thought we would sell the home and full time. That would have allowed us to buy a lot more coach. We've changed our minds and keeping the house until my son decides where he wants to go to college. So our budget has changed and so has our need for financing. The older the coach, the more difficult if not impossible to get financing. I think most banks won't lend on an RV older than 10 years - and if they did I imagine terms would be poor.

We bought a 2006 National gasser in 2018 and financed for 15 years (on purpose, and in 2 years we have paid the loan down by 40% - that was the plan), and to date have only spent about $1300 to fix things that have broken. We have bought new tires and batteries (normal wear items) and upgraded the fridge to a residential unit, but if you get a motor home that has been well taken care of with all the proper maintenance performed you shouldn't have the problem with lots of stuff breaking. So personally I would have no problems buying an 8-10 year old DP.

Just my 2 cents....

Al
azdryheat
Explorer
May 08, 2020
I drive a lot of assorted motorhomes at work. I've found that you tend to get what you pay for. In the gasser catagory I find that there is more engine soundproofing in Newmar and Tiffin than Winnebago, Fleetwood, and Thor. I've found that diesels have quiet engines in the back and smoother rides but the less expensive units (Thor) tend to have more wind noise and rattles.

If I was doing a few trips a year I'd get a gasser. For full-timing I'd get a diesel.

I prefer Tiffin products overall because they just feel right.

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