Just came across this article about an rv catching fire in a tunnel in Montreal. He violated the rules on propane and guess who has to pay?Something for all of us to think about - I try to avoid tunnels anyhow.Tunnel fire and rvChris

Excuse my ignorance but why do you avoid tunnels and how do you know a tunnel is coming up?

The fine for the propane is deserved. But according to the article, the propane did not cause the fire. Why is the driver responsible for the damage that resulted from a mechanical malfunction? Is that the norm in Canada? It's not generally the case in the US.

What rv packs 216 liters of propane?:h His insurance company would be on the hook for the damage to the tunnel unless he knew or ought to have known about a problem likely to cause the fire.

The article said he and his insurance company have to pay. Although he was committing an illegal act at the time (More propane than allowed in tunnel) that should give the insurance company a reason to decline the claim.I avoid tunnels also. Did not like them in a car, and now hate them with a trailer in tow.

Interesting...the article brings up some interesting points. According to the article one can have TWO 46 litre tanks of propane and the perp had 216 litres on board. If I remember my conversions correctly, this would be TWO 12 gallon tanks and the perp had just under 60. My coach has ONE 40 gallon (155 litres) propane tank. Assuming, of course my tank was full. That said, full is only 80%, plus or minus, capacity or 32 gals/124 liters. Still, I'd be over the legal limit unless my tank was almost empty. This then, would prohibit me from using that tunnel...is this correct?/:h.Finally, of course the insurance company would be on the hook for the accident, that's why we carry it. Still, the propane "issue" had nothing to do with the fire and did not ignite or leak. Why then, is this a major deal? I understand the "potential" disaster that could have happened but we live with coulda, woulda, shoulda circumstances every day. Isn't this like saying you had an engine fire and while investigating the fire, you discovered the vehicle had a bald tire>?Please, I'm only trying to start a discussion as to the legalities of tunnel driving. Most tunnels are on the East Coast and you guys that live there know what you can and can't do. Us westerners know how to drive over mountains but are clueless when it comes to tunnels. Given my description above, would I have to drain my LP tank or simply avoid the tunnel altogether? Thanks for any input....Dennis

RV fire, propane and Tunnel - he got off lucky | Good Sam Community

Dale_Traveling
Explorer II
Aug 24, 2015
The fire and resulting damage along with the cost to repair coming back on the driver isn't anything different here in the USA. This is why we have property damage as part of our insurance. Blow a tire and take out 50' of guard rail and the state will send you a bill. For this owner call it bad timing when the rig went up in a tunnel. Probably a few minutes earlier or later and he might have cleared the tunnel and this would have been a side note to summer traffic jams.

Excessive propane, well call that one poor judgment and an expensive lesson learned. We should all do a bit of research before hitting the road. Between underwater tunnels, excessive tolls or even high traffic areas know where you are going. With the internet the information is available.

As with rekoj71 I live in the Norfolk area and the tunnel check points are well marker, even with a propane tank outline. Don't stop and they may shut down tunnel traffic to pull you out to inspect. I95 thru Baltimore has a total HAZMAT restriction with includes RV's with propane tanks.

Not that ever plan to do it but does the tunnels into Manhattan Island have restrictions?
Old-Biscuit
Explorer III
Aug 24, 2015
Executive wrote:
Dog Folks wrote:

Exclusions
These coverages do not apply to liability for:

Bodily injury or property damage caused by the: intentional
acts; criminal acts, other than traffic violations; or
omissions; of an insured person, or done at the direction of
an insured person, which are designed to produce loss or
damage.

If too much propane in a tunnel is "criminal" is up to prosecutors office as to what charges are filed.

Seems like transportation of excess propane would fall under the "traffic violation" provisions, not criminal act...Dennis

Exactly.
The excess propane is going to cost the Driver of MH towing the trailer a hefty fine and demerits (points) on his drivers license.

The MH engine fire is what is really going to cost him & insurance company due to tunnel damage (electrical wiring/lighting etc)
Executive45
Explorer III
Aug 24, 2015
Dog Folks wrote:

Exclusions
These coverages do not apply to liability for:

Bodily injury or property damage caused by the: intentional
acts; criminal acts, other than traffic violations; or
omissions; of an insured person, or done at the direction of
an insured person, which are designed to produce loss or
damage.

If too much propane in a tunnel is "criminal" is up to prosecutors office as to what charges are filed.

Seems like transportation of excess propane would fall under the "traffic violation" provisions, not criminal act...Dennis
CarnationSailor
Nomad
Aug 24, 2015
Dog Folks wrote:
CarnationSailor wrote:
I never have understood the statements on the forums where posters say an insurance company can deny a claim if you do something illegal. If I speed or run thru a stop light (which is illegal) resulting in an accident, is my insurance company going to deny the claim? I don't think so.

I agree with a previous post that says that is why we have insurance.

You folks might want to check your policy. This is directly from mine (A major company,) listed when coverage is denied:

Exclusions
These coverages do not apply to liability for:

Bodily injury or property damage caused by the: intentional
acts; criminal acts, other than traffic violations; or
omissions; of an insured person, or done at the direction of
an insured person, which are designed to produce loss or
damage.

If too much propane in a tunnel is "criminal" is up to prosecutors office as to what charges are filed.

The key condition here for exclusion of coverage is "which are designed to produce loss or damage." This means (I think) if it was my "design" (intent) to cause damage by carrying too much propane, then yes, the coverage would be excluded. However, if there was no intent to cause damage, then the insurance company couldn't exclude coverage.
cvbdsl
Explorer
Aug 23, 2015
ricelake922 wrote:
Excuse my ignorance but why do you avoid tunnels and how do you know a tunnel is coming up?

Maps and GPS and route planners(set to avoid tunnels).

The bigger question is how many people (especially non-professional drivers) would have known what the sign for prohibiting dangerous goods is. Even the police admitted that most people don't know (a black square with a red line through it)

Actually they weren't prohibited for propane, just limited. According to the province (in the second link about this incident) you should look this up on their web site as ignorance of the law is no excuse. You got to love politicians.

Chris
cvbdsl
Explorer
Aug 23, 2015
According to the article one can have TWO 46 litre tanks of propane and the perp had 216 litres on board. If I remember my conversions correctly, this would be TWO 12 gallon tanks and the perp had just under 60. My coach has ONE 40 gallon (155 litres) propane tank. Assuming, of course my tank was full. That said, full is only 80%, plus or minus, capacity or 32 gals/124 liters. Still, I'd be over the legal limit unless my tank was almost empty. This then, would prohibit me from using that tunnel...is this correct?"

Yes, it seems that you could not use the tunnel in a MH. I was advised of this by my dealer in a general conversation so have always avoided Montreal in my MH. The tunnel is fairly long and goes under the river and is usually very busy.

I understand that there is a tunnel near Boston with the similar propane restrictions.

I've always hated going through Montreal (heavy traffic and signs in French only)and usually go through the US, but with the Canadian dollar so low, it would cost more.

I'm going on a trip with the MH to the Maritimes in two weeks and have to go through Montreal both ways. A couple of years ago they put in a bypass (Hwy 30) with a minor toll. Roughly same distance/time but no tunnel, still lots of traffic.

Chris
rekoj71
Explorer
Aug 23, 2015
I am currently in the Norfolk area, and there are several tunnels in this area, the issue is that the tunnels here are not going through a mountain, but going under water. The tunnel is there so that large ships can pass over the Highway, so this tunnel goes way down then has to come way up. The issue becomes that Propane is heavier than air, so in a tunnel of this type, if the propane would leak out while stuck in the tunnel then the tunnel could become filled with propane creating a disastrous situation (either asphyxiation or explosive). Thankfully in my experience there are plenty of warning signs about the tunnel coming up and even a pull off inspection place before entering most of these tunnels, and all that I have ever had to do was turn off my propane tank or bottles before proceeding through the tunnel. It there wasn't a pull off there is at least another exit after the warning signs.

My MH only has 1 40lb tank. I haven't done the perfect math but if a 20lb tank (BBQ size) is generally considered 5 gallons then I have about 10 gallons or about 38 liters
Hiker_01
Explorer
Aug 23, 2015
Executive wrote:

Please, I'm only trying to start a discussion as to the legalities of tunnel driving. Most tunnels are on the East Coast and you guys that live there know what you can and can't do. Us westerners know how to drive over mountains but are clueless when it comes to tunnels. Given my description above, would I have to drain my LP tank or simply avoid the tunnel altogether? Thanks for any input....Dennis

When I lived out east (glad I moved back west), where there were hazmat restrictions for tunnels, there were always alternate routes. Large trucks which carry hazmat have to be able to get around, so you would end up using the same bypass as they use. It's a pain, and generally requires a person to look at the maps ahead of time and do some route planning, rather than wait until the tunnel to realize you don't belong there. But we all plan our routes so shouldn't really be an issue.
Kayteg1
Explorer II
Aug 23, 2015
This is how you manufacture hot headlines in the news.
You take a news about a vehicle having mechanical problem in tunnel and add something, like there was a sex offender or too much propane involved and word it the way that it looks connected.
Isn't that called PROPAGANDA?
Oldme
Explorer
Aug 23, 2015
Several references to inspections before tunnels here.
ricelake922 wrote:
Excuse my ignorance but why do you avoid tunnels and how do you know a tunnel is coming up?

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RV fire, propane and Tunnel - he got off lucky

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