Stopped in motor home for going too slow on I-80

rgatijnet1 wrote:

msmith1199 wrote:

FormerBoater wrote:
It gets worse than this, if you read the entire article you will learn about the convenience store owner in NC that regularly made deposits just under the $10K threshold where the bank has to file an SAR (Suspicious Activity Report).

The government swooped in and confiscated his company bank account and then wanted him to settle out of court if they returned half of the money.

Bottom line: Law Enforcement working for the state or federal government participates in (regrettably lawful) confiscation of private citizens funds with little recourse for the citizens.

I was going to recommend writing your elected officials to stop this disgusting practice, but then I remembered they are all on their August "break" before resuming their 3 day work weeks in our nation's capital.

We the citizens need to pay closer attention to what is being done in this country.

I assure you there is more to that story. There are a million cash businesses in this country that generate these types of SARS and CTRS every day. For the government to go in and seize his money there had to have been evidence he was doing something illegal, even if it was only income tax evasion.

As I said before, all of this is fine and I do not disagree, BUT, he was NOT charged and NOT convicted of any crime for THIS traffic stop. Why wasn't HIS property returned immediately? The court ruled that he should get his money back, and the locals are still resisting.
Maybe he is/was a drug dealer but apparently nobody could prove it so until they can, isn't he is just another citizen. Do you figure Nevada cops operate under different laws, and should punish people without any evidence to their guilt other than their own gut feeling.
You mentioned about the bank filing a SAR. That is correct and guess who determines what is a suspicious activity......your friendly banker. That is why I had no problem making the large cash deposit or withdrawing large amounts. My bank was used to my activities and nothing was reported as suspicious.

This is a civil forfeiture case. He was not charged with a crime because it's not a criminal case, it's a civil case. As for Nevada cops doing what they want, they followed the law as it was at the time they made the stop. It is now the US Attorney who has the case as is calling the shots, not the local police.

And as for your banking activities, you are proving my point. You are moving cash as part of a legitimate business yet nobody has seized it, how come? It's because you aren't a drug dealer or a crook. Contrary to what the media and others want you to believe, the government is not running around seizing and keeping cash from otherwise law abiding citizens. You are perfect proof of that.

U.S. Forfeiture laws were originally passed in 1988.
When first used, it was very much abused, some changes have been made to curtail abuse, but abuse has not stopped. Some would not be so naive about the abuse if they would study case law.

For civil forfeiture read the link.

Civil Forfeiture

For RICO forfeiture read this link.

Forfeiture

Naio wrote:

2oldman wrote:
The drug laws have made gestapo out of the police. You can't arrest murderers, rapists, burglars, without some sort of evidence. But catch someone with a lot of cash and not only is it evidence of a crime, it's seized, along with anything else like cars and houses. Then you have to prove it isn't illegal, and that's very expensive. And nobody complains because, hey, it's drugs, and we all know that's the worst crime there is. Right?

No. It's just the easiest, most public and most lucrative one to prosecute. And the public loves it. And, after 50 years, it's so effective in stopping drugs. :R

x2

X3

msmith1199 wrote:

FormerBoater wrote:
It gets worse than this, if you read the entire article you will learn about the convenience store owner in NC that regularly made deposits just under the $10K threshold where the bank has to file an SAR (Suspicious Activity Report).

The government swooped in and confiscated his company bank account and then wanted him to settle out of court if they returned half of the money.

Bottom line: Law Enforcement working for the state or federal government participates in (regrettably lawful) confiscation of private citizens funds with little recourse for the citizens.

I was going to recommend writing your elected officials to stop this disgusting practice, but then I remembered they are all on their August "break" before resuming their 3 day work weeks in our nation's capital.

We the citizens need to pay closer attention to what is being done in this country.

I assure you there is more to that story. There are a million cash businesses in this country that generate these types of SARS and CTRS every day. For the government to go in and seize his money there had to have been evidence he was doing something illegal, even if it was only income tax evasion.

As I said before, all of this is fine and I do not disagree, BUT, he was NOT charged and NOT convicted of any crime for THIS traffic stop. Why wasn't HIS property returned immediately? The court ruled that he should get his money back, and the locals are still resisting.
Maybe he is/was a drug dealer but apparently nobody could prove it so until they can, isn't he is just another citizen. Do you figure Nevada cops operate under different laws, and should punish people without any evidence to their guilt other than their own gut feeling.
You mentioned about the bank filing a SAR. That is correct and guess who determines what is a suspicious activity......your friendly banker. That is why I had no problem making the large cash deposit or withdrawing large amounts. My bank was used to my activities and nothing was reported as suspicious.

2oldman wrote:
The drug laws have made gestapo out of the police. You can't arrest murderers, rapists, burglars, without some sort of evidence. But catch someone with a lot of cash and not only is it evidence of a crime, it's seized, along with anything else like cars and houses. Then you have to prove it isn't illegal, and that's very expensive. And nobody complains because, hey, it's drugs, and we all know that's the worst crime there is. Right?

No. It's just the easiest, most public and most lucrative one to prosecute. And the public loves it. And, after 50 years, it's so effective in stopping drugs. :R

x2

Some, you're going to convince...others...well...forgetaboutit.....:S....Dennis

The drug laws have made gestapo out of the police. You can't arrest murderers, rapists, burglars, without some sort of evidence. But catch someone with a lot of cash and not only is it evidence of a crime, it's seized, along with anything else like cars and houses. Then you have to prove it isn't illegal, and that's very expensive. And nobody complains because, hey, it's drugs, and we all know that's the worst crime there is. Right?

No. It's just the easiest, most public and most lucrative one to prosecute. And the public loves it. And, after 50 years, it's so effective in stopping drugs. :R

FormerBoater wrote:
It gets worse than this, if you read the entire article you will learn about the convenience store owner in NC that regularly made deposits just under the $10K threshold where the bank has to file an SAR (Suspicious Activity Report).

The government swooped in and confiscated his company bank account and then wanted him to settle out of court if they returned half of the money.

Bottom line: Law Enforcement working for the state or federal government participates in (regrettably lawful) confiscation of private citizens funds with little recourse for the citizens.

I was going to recommend writing your elected officials to stop this disgusting practice, but then I remembered they are all on their August "break" before resuming their 3 day work weeks in our nation's capital.

We the citizens need to pay closer attention to what is being done in this country.

I assure you there is more to that story. There are a million cash businesses in this country that generate these types of SARS and CTRS every day. For the government to go in and seize his money there had to have been evidence he was doing something illegal, even if it was only income tax evasion.

PF&PM wrote:
Here in Kanada, a couple years ago I sold a truck . The buyer paid cash. I went to deposit some in one account and the rest (9000) in another. The bank required me to fill out and affidavit and swear an oath in front of a manager of the bank. I questioned all this and they told me it was a new law (that wasn't made public) snuck in by the federal government to help fight drug gangs. I think next time I'll just keep the cash and never mind depositing it !

The US has had that law for decades. Here if you deposit or withdraw more than $10k in cash from a bank the bank must fill out a Cash Transaction Report and send it to the IRS. As long the money is legal you have nothing to worry about. What happens is people start doing what is called structuring deposits in order to avoid the CTR. And that is illegal and it's actually possible to turn otherwise legal money into illegal money when you do that, because trying to avoid a CTR is a crime regardless of where the money came from. What most people don't realize is if they would just put the money in the bank and let the bank fill out the CTR odds are nobody would ever pay attention to it. Tens of thousands of CTR's are generated every day and they just go to archives. But if you structure a deposit and cause a CTR to be generated, every single one of those is going to be reviewed by a committee of people to determine if more follow up is needed.

rgatijnet1 wrote:

Skid Row Joe wrote:

rgatijnet1 wrote:
I sold one of my Classic cars and the man drove down from North Carolina and paid me $56,000 in cash.
I also have bought cars in different parts of the country and cash is the easiest/only way to buy something from a private party that will not take a check or credit card. Wire transfers cannot be done unless you have made prior arrangements with your bank, in person, before you left.
In any case, it is not against the law to carry any amount of cash in your RV as long as you do not try to leave the USA. There is also no law that says that you have to put your money in a bank, or even have a bank account. This is just to warn you of what may happen as you travel.

It's very dangerous to deal in large sums of cash. BTW, you're not correct on the seizure issue - it happens every day in every State, Do not carry around large sums - whatever that number is to you that you don't wish to have seized legally by LE.

I agree, it is dangerous, but that does not make it illegal. Also please tell me how law enforcement could legally seize the money that I received for selling my Classic car if I was carrying it with me, which I did do for a period of time. I should add that during a search of my coach, if I was on my way to Maryland, where my Son lives, I may be transporting several pistols, several rifles, and a few thousand rounds of ammo.
I understand that it happens and I understand the comment from a former officer that taking the profit from criminal activities is a good tool to use but how does that justify the police doing it to everyone that they suspect may be committing a crime because they are found to be carrying a large amount of cash?

How can law enforcement legally seize the money? Well there is this big group of people in this big building with a dome on top that's in Washington DC. They have passed laws that said law enforcement could seize this money in order to take the profit out of criminal activity. Once they passed the law a guy in a big White House signed that into law. The cops did not decide on their own to go out and take money. There are Federal Laws and there are State laws in each state that allow for civil forfeiture of property suspected of being gains from criminal activity. And in each state a group of people in a big building came up with those state laws and a Governor signed them. Is that explanation enough?

And you tell this great story of selling a car for a large amount of cash. Yet you don't tell us about law enforcement coming and seizing that cash from you. How come law enforcement didn't seize your cash? Could it be because you aren't a drug dealer or a criminal and you didn't do anything to draw the attention of law enforcement to your cash? Funny how that works isn't it?