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D_E_Bishop's avatar
D_E_Bishop
Explorer
Feb 04, 2016

We're looking at "C"s and have Questions.

We have just started traveling to dealers and owners to see a variety of Class C's. My wife had thought that we should go smaller and I very wisely let her drag me to look at a number of short C's and Class B's. She takes a lot of clothes and currently has almost all of a 4 foot wardrobe to herself. Most small rigs don't have the space we need for extended travel and now she see's why I started looking at rigs over 28 feet. We have pretty much settled on a manufacturer and two floor plans. The choice is between either Jamboree or Tioga in the 31N or 31M configurations.

So my two big questions are, what years are better and can levelers cause chassis problems. It was suggested that we look at 2009 and above because Ford made some big changes in the V10 between 2008 and 2009 that helped increase efficiency and durability. The other suggestion was that we stay away from levelers because the Ford chassis has a tendency to get tweaked by the levelers.

Both these suggestions came from a salesman and while I tend to think about how to tell if a salesman is lying..., I feel the one who made these suggestions is pretty reliable and honest. We're only talking about a couple three grand in price without levelers in an '08 and a '09. Finding a "C" with levelers already installed is difficult, so there is $4500 to $6000 cost in adding them.

So what do you folks think is the difference in engines significant and are levelers a bad idea?

To complete the picture, we have just spent a fortune refurbishing our house and have another $12,000 to spend on the kitchen. We are retired and in our early 70's but still like to travel and I'm very tired of all I have to do to keep the Bounder on the road due to it being 26 years old. Mostly it is plastic parts giving out and aluminum rivets failing. So every time the S&B refurbishing needs another five grand, my buying power for a new rig diminishes.
Class C

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  • j-d's avatar
    j-d
    Explorer II
    Feb 04, 2016
    Oh, Levelers. We've had HWH-brand semi-automatic Kick-Down jacks on two Class C's. It used to be possible to operate one jack at a time and the chassis would twist doing that. Newer systems always operate two jacks at a time. Options are Left, Right, Front, Rear. Both Lefts, Both Rights, Both Fronts, Both Rears operate at once to reduce racking the chassis.
    All Right, OK, You Win. Safer is (always supposed to be) better. Operate two jacks at a time. That is not my beef with Class C levelers. It is this:
    1. Most are Kick-Down. All too often, they extend in the stored position before kicking to the leveling position. This is a PAIN!!! All too often, I'm reaching under to pull one jack to vertical and the other side is already extended.
    2. Class C jacks get installed too close together. The chassis is narrow, so lifting one side lifts the other before level is achieved. On a short Class C, the front jacks (toward the rear of the cockpit) raise the rear a lot before level is achieved.
    We're camping right now and this time we used jacks. I had to pull one front jack down, and one of the rears is not extended. We also carry 2*8 blocks, and we usually drive up onto them and don't use the jacks.
    I installed heavy duty Hellwig sway bars, front and rear, and they made the coach steadier on the campsite than deploying jacks did.
    I wouldn't spend money on jacks for a Class C unless the coach was upper 20's long AND the jacks were "direct acting" meaning they store in the vertical position and come straight down to level the coach.
  • j-d's avatar
    j-d
    Explorer II
    Feb 04, 2016
    It helps to remember that every Class C Ford chassis has the "two valve" V10, derived from the original 1997-99 V10 that started the spitting spark plug issue. The F-Series (pickups and Class A chassis got a "three valve" V10 in the mid-2000's but it NEVER went into E-Series/Class C. The plug problems in two-valve were largely corrected in 2000 with heads called Performance Improved, with "PI" cast into them. The HP went from 275 to 305. There were some problems, albeit different, till around 2004. Around 2005 the 4R100 transmission was replaced with TorqShift, 5R110.
    So... if the button on the Shift Lever says "Tow Haul" and not "OD Off" then the Class C has TorqShift AND Good Heads.
    In 2008, E-Series got the new bolder grille. There were other changes, most notably an improved front axle and brakes. Rear brakes and parking brake were improved but the big jump came in front brakes. So if the Ford Class C has the "Dump Truck Nose" (for those who like it) or "Pig's Nose" (for those who don't) then it has pretty much all the improvements.
    It's possible to upgrade the front axle and brakes to 2008+, but most of the other improvements Ford has made aren't within reason concerning expense and complexity.
    Remember, much of a coach "year" production is on the prior year's CHASSIS. All of what I said above is by CHASSIS YEAR. I don't think it makes much difference say 2002-2003, or 2009-2010, but 1999-2000 is BIG (PI Heads) and 2007-2008 is BIG (Brakes, Axle, Styling).
  • toedtoes's avatar
    toedtoes
    Explorer III
    Feb 04, 2016
    That's why I mentioned the cost vs. comfort: for some the levelers are really a necessity and the added cost is reality, they just have to find other things to keep the cost doable.

    Sounds like you've got a good plan of action moving forward.
  • Tiger4x4RV's avatar
    Tiger4x4RV
    Nomad
    Feb 04, 2016
    There is no perfect RV. We folks over 70 don't have forever to make RV buying decisions. Can you find a floorplan similar to what you are used to and just go for it?
  • D_E_Bishop's avatar
    D_E_Bishop
    Explorer
    Feb 04, 2016
    I feel as does avan that if it was a problem of any magnitude the manufacturers would not make them and not finding any negative comments in Tech Issues or on this forum, I pretty much assumed that there wasn't any problem with the frames.


    The reason I'm looking toward levelers is that I have certain old tired body issues that make using blocks or ramps painful.

    I guess I didn't explain fully about the cost, it seems that we have a certain amount of money to finish the house and buy the RV. Somehow, while the DW is concerned about how much the house is costing, she seems to forget that it effects how new a rig we buy. 5K less means a year or so older. That is all.

    We have looked at rigs on Chevy chassis and so far have not been happy with the floor plans, but the DW like the added foot room.

    Now that I have some more logical info, I am looking toward adding levelers. An added positive is that the current issue of MoHo magazine has a significant article on doing just what I want to do. I am going to go to the shop that was mentioned in the article and talk to them too.
  • DrewE's avatar
    DrewE
    Explorer II
    Feb 04, 2016
    Ford has made improvements to the engine and transmission over the years. The early V10s in particular (through around 2001-2002, I think) are somewhat notorious for a propensity to have spark plugs pop out and strip the holes in the head due to having insufficient threads for them to fit into. It's not a problem that completely destroys the engine, but it can be costly and intrusive to fix. That said, many of these older engines are working fine without problems, and awareness to take care to make sure the spark plugs are properly installed with a torque wrench (and not overtorqued) goes a long way towards preventing the problem.

    I think maybe around 2005 or so the transmission was upgraded from the four speed to the five speed unit. This can be determined pretty easily by looking at the button in the end of the shifter. If it's labeled "O/D Off", it's a four speed transmission and the button locks out overderive. If it's labeled "Tow/Haul", it's a newer transmission, and the button engages tow/haul mode, which does not lock out overdrive but changes the shift logic and shift points and has some automatic downshifting when descending grades. The newer transmission is definitely an improvement (sturdier, and better behaved programming). Very recent (new) models have a six speed transmission.

    There have been other changes to the drivetrain design, too, resulting in occasional bumps in power and so forth. From pretty much any year it's a fairly solid and reliable package when given proper routine maintenance and basic care.
  • toedtoes's avatar
    toedtoes
    Explorer III
    Feb 04, 2016
    If cost is an issue and you'd have to add levelers after purchase at a cost of $4,000+, then i'd say the question is more:

    Are you comfortable without levelers? If so, then you can save some money. If not, then you install them or don't buy a Ford chassis (the latter supposing the salesman was telling the truth; the former that he wasn't).
  • avan's avatar
    avan
    Explorer
    Feb 04, 2016
    D.E.Bishop wrote:
    ...The other suggestion was that we stay away from levelers because the Ford chassis has a tendency to get tweaked by the levelers.

    Both these suggestions came from a salesman and while I tend to think about how to tell if a salesman is lying..., I feel the one who made these suggestions is pretty reliable and honest...

    Though my rig does have auto levelers, I am, by no means, an expert. That said, I would think that the major companies that manufacture levelers and the RV manufacturers that install them as an option to their brand new units, might, if there were significant concerns in this area, addressed them or at least the RV mfrs might not promote levelers. If I was of the mind that the various mfrs might not tell me the truth, the whole truth etc. and instead lie about this, I might also think that the used RV salesman who might not have a used unit in stock with auto levelers, might pass on a negative opinion he heard from his great aunt.

    Anecdotally, this forum is a very active one and it seems that every negative aspect of anything RV related is dissected here. In the years I've followed the forum, I don't remember any posts from someone alleging this issue nor do I remember any of the usually numerous "me too" posts.

    Finally, to my elderly mind, a potentially bigger culprit in twisting a frame might be slides that are extended when a rig is not level adding stress to the suspension and, possibly, frame. JMO

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