Will a 24' Class B+ on an E450 Chassis be too rough

ron.dittmer wrote:

Bside60 wrote:

camperdave wrote:
I'm not sure how an E450 would help you anyway, sine you are flat towing (ie: no tongue weight). The biggest advantage is the extra GVWR, isn't it?

Here is some of what I've found regarding the E450 advantages over an E350: "an E450 gives you bigger brakes for more time between brake jobs, more transmission cooling for less heat load on the engine and longer transmission life, a 4.5 inch wider rear dually stance for better lateral stability offroad and in high side winds, pump boosted power steering instead of vacuum boosted power steering, thicker steel in the chassis frame for less frame torsional twisting transfer into the coach box, and lower differential gearing when pulling up long grades for less heat load on the V10 in hot weather".

It looks like you've covered everything mechanical.

One plus for the E350 is... the rear differential gear ratio of the E450 will yield near one less mpg in fuel efficiency. This based on lots of RV.net discussion. But given you plan to tow 4600 pounds, that point might be a wash.

The question is whether or not the E450's mechanical benefits outweigh the harsher ride....assuming the ride is that much harsher of an E450 based motor home that weighs only 9600 pounds (with slide out). My wife and I with all our stuff and fresh water add less than 1000 pounds in the same motor home you are considering. That would bring the margin down to a minimum of 3000 pounds. That is a lot of margin. It might yield a very rough ride.

You make great points. I didn't mention on this forum how important transit comfort is to us (not just for whoever is in the cab but aslo for anyone back in the coach). Coming from a 9.5 foot truck camper hauling two teenagers and two 60+ lb dogs and 4 bikes, my wife and I have learned to pack light! With just the two of us and one dog now I am thinking the ride quality may have to trump other considerations. We haven't bought a Jeep yet!

Bside60 wrote:
Here is some of what I've found regarding the E450 advantages over an E350: "an E450 gives you bigger brakes for more time between brake jobs, more transmission cooling for less heat load on the engine and longer transmission life, a 4.5 inch wider rear dually stance for better lateral stability offroad and in high side winds, pump boosted power steering instead of vacuum boosted power steering, thicker steel in the chassis frame for less frame torsional twisting transfer into the coach box, and lower differential gearing when pulling up long grades for less heat load on the V10 in hot weather.

What Biside60 posted above is what I have also found out concerning differences between the E350 and E450 chassis, except for possibly one more difference: Another thing that may be different between the E350 and the E450 is that, at least on ours, the front suspension contains a steer dampening shock. I don't know if Winnebago installed this or if it's a standard Ford item on just the E450, or on both the E350 and E450.

We have a 24 foot E450 Class C and we intentionally looked for an E450 when shopping for a small motorhome because we wanted an "overkill" chassis underneath our motorhome for the best long term reliability and ruggedness - especially for us traveling off-road. Our total loaded weight is around 11,800 lbs. - so we our well below the chassis maximum - which is exactly what we wanted. We have no concerns about loading it up with "just in case" stuff for RV trips because loaded weight is not an issue. We don't even feel our boat back there when we tow it.

The handling is superb because of the chassis underloading - other than sharp jolts in the rear of the motorhome from highway cracks and holes - that I feel is partially or fully due to Ford's stock shocks. There is no harsh ride in the front - smooth as silk for the driver and passenger - probably due to coil springs being there as opposed to the leaf springs and OEM shocks in the rear. Due to the larger E450 brake swept areas, at around 35K miles we still had about 90% of our front brake pads still intact.

I'm hoping to partially or fully eliminate the rear end sharp jolts by using replacement shocks especially designed for this -> KONI FSD (Frequency Selective Dampers) shocks. An FSD shock part number is due to finally be available from KONI for the E450 anytime now. (This shock has been available for other chassis for quite some time.)

P.S. Us getting an E450 chassis when not really needed was in order to at least partially comply with an old Chinese Proverb (that I just made up): "One will get the best long term vehicle satisfaction by buying a heavy duty one and then using it in a light duty way." ;)

You could talk to Phoenix Cruiser about the possibility of them adding MOR/ryde RS at the factory. I have a 24' Winnebago on an E-450 chassis because I wanted the additional robustness and lower gear ratio that provides; however, the rear end is sprung a bit stiff for the load it carries.

Bside60 wrote:

camperdave wrote:
I'm not sure how an E450 would help you anyway, sine you are flat towing (ie: no tongue weight). The biggest advantage is the extra GVWR, isn't it?

Here is some of what I've found regarding the E450 advantages over an E350: "an E450 gives you bigger brakes for more time between brake jobs, more transmission cooling for less heat load on the engine and longer transmission life, a 4.5 inch wider rear dually stance for better lateral stability offroad and in high side winds, pump boosted power steering instead of vacuum boosted power steering, thicker steel in the chassis frame for less frame torsional twisting transfer into the coach box, and lower differential gearing when pulling up long grades for less heat load on the V10 in hot weather".

It looks like you've covered everything mechanical.

One plus for the E350 is... the rear differential gear ratio of the E450 will yield near one less mpg in fuel efficiency. This based on lots of RV.net discussion. But given you plan to tow 4600 pounds, that point might be a wash.

The question is whether or not the E450's mechanical benefits outweigh the harsher ride....assuming the ride is that much harsher of an E450 based motor home that weighs only 9600 pounds (with slide out). My wife and I with all our stuff and fresh water add less than 1000 pounds in the same motor home you are considering. That would bring the margin down to a minimum of 3000 pounds. That is a lot of margin. It might yield a very rough ride.

camperdave wrote:
I'm not sure how an E450 would help you anyway, sine you are flat towing (ie: no tongue weight). The biggest advantage is the extra GVWR, isn't it?

Here is some of what I've found regarding the E450 advantages over an E350: "an E450 gives you bigger brakes for more time between brake jobs, more transmission cooling for less heat load on the engine and longer transmission life, a 4.5 inch wider rear dually stance for better lateral stability offroad and in high side winds, pump boosted power steering instead of vacuum boosted power steering, thicker steel in the chassis frame for less frame torsional twisting transfer into the coach box, and lower differential gearing when pulling up long grades for less heat load on the V10 in hot weather".

I am still learning though and value any opinions.

ron.dittmer wrote:

John & Angela wrote:
The difference between the E350 and the E450 is the E450 comes stock with a rear sway bar.

This is true only for the 2007 E350 and older. The 2008 and newer get one straight from Ford, though not heavy duty like an aftermarket bar. Some people change out the Ford stock bars for thicker more effective ones. I suppose it's a "Wait-N-See" scenerio whether you need one or not on the 2008 or newer chassis. Maybe a 24 footer won't, but a 31 footer will.

Thanks for the info. Nice to know. We went with the Helwig sway bar, bilstein shocks all around and supersprings on the back. Handles like a sport truck now. Better clearance on the back as well.

John & Angela wrote:
The difference between the E350 and the E450 is the E450 comes stock with a rear sway bar.

This is true only for the 2007 E350 and older. The 2008 and newer get one straight from Ford, though not heavy duty like an aftermarket bar. Some people change out the Ford stock bars for thicker more effective ones. I suppose it's a "Wait-N-See" scenerio whether you need one or not on the 2008 or newer chassis. Maybe a 24 footer won't, but a 31 footer will.

We have an E350 chassis under our motorhome. The difference between the E350 and the E450 is the E450 comes stock with a rear sway bar. We added a rear sway bar to our E350 and it makes a HUUUUGE difference. I would get the E450 just for that reason. Or add one to the E350 after.

Happy trails

rcase13 wrote:
But that could be the Hellwig helper springs causing it.

More springs will make a suspension stiffer. If you don't need them, I would remove them. But if your rear is dragging on the street, then keep them.

Our 28' class c on a E450. Rides very well. Not ruff at all.
You need a little weight to make the support spring's work.