All electric no propane needed

2oldman wrote:

aslakson wrote:
Some of the new high-end all-electric coaches are actually listed at 100 amps . . .

That's actually what 50a service is.

Actually they have 2x 50 amp cords.

PawPaw_n_Gram wrote:
A couple arrived to camp host at a park we were finishing up.

They had an Entegra 'All-Electric'. They had come in from Quartzsite. They said they were dry camping there for a week and ran the generator two hours on the third and sixth day. Others wise there solar panels and normal boondocking electrical conservation was sufficient for them.

As I've said before - I'm expecting 'All Electric' fifth wheels will hit the marked within a couple years.

Somehow I don't think I would ever see a all electric fifth wheel, with the expensive diesel fired hydro hot heating system, diesel generator that is twice the cost and weight of a Onan 5,500 watt LP generator, and 10 KW of battery storage.

my 4 golf cart batteries store about 440 amp hours at 12 volts, or roughly 5 KW. It is 67 pounds per battery, or 268 pounds! Why carry around another 250 - 300 pounds of batteries? Why carry around a 250 pound Aquahot boiler and a hot water distribution system that can not be powered by the engine while driving down the road?

It makes sense to have a propane powered refrigerator, furnace, water heater. They are reasonable light weight appliances, and do not consume a lot of battery power.

Sure you can power things with solar power. I have had a 90 watt solar system since 1994. I added a 75 watt panel ($375 back then) in 97 and pair of 120 watt panels ($429 each) in 1999. Now it is so much less expensive, and installing a 500 - 800 watt solar system is easy to do.

Running the refrigerator on electric is very simple, and I expect the trend to change over to electric refrigerators to continue.

Running the heater on all electric is not so easy, as they require tremendous amount of power to heat a RV in 10F weather to a comfortable level, without burning propane or diesel fuel. Because most RV manufactures do not install diesel fuel tanks in a fifth wheel, I can not see them suddenly installing a diesel fuel system, diesel heater or boiler, and other diesel systems to replace the common propane systems.

A diesel furnace and Aqua hot heating system require yearly tune ups, cleaning of the burner, and other things, like fuel filter changes.

Propane burns much cleaner, does not require yearly maintenance, and no filter changes. Only about every 20 years, you should change the propane pressure regulator. This is only because the internal seals can start to leak or pass through a in-correct pressure, and should be changed. Not to say that a 1960's propane regulator is not perfectly safe, I am sure that many 1960's regulators are still in use, some 50 years later. But they should be replaced at around 15- 20 years old.

I have a 1997 motorhome, and nothing has been done to the propane water heater or furnace except clean out the water side by draining the water heater yearly.

Good luck!

Fred.

A couple arrived to camp host at a park we were finishing up.

They had an Entegra 'All-Electric'. They had come in from Quartzsite. They said they were dry camping there for a week and ran the generator two hours on the third and sixth day. Others wise there solar panels and normal boondocking electrical conservation was sufficient for them.

As I've said before - I'm expecting 'All Electric' fifth wheels will hit the marked within a couple years.

we see/sell lots of all electric MH recently. They have Aqua Hot/Hydro Hot"Oasis" water heating/furnace systems that use diesel to run, and they have invertors that power the fridge, microwave, sleep number bed, and at least 1 electric receptacle near the dinette, usually the bedroom TV and usually the main TV. Usually 1 electric receptacle in an outside storage boot somewhere.

Bob Vaughn wrote:
At the Tampa RV supershow last week a motor home salesman stated they have a model that is all electric. No propane tanks....nothing runs on propane......I did not think to ask about 12 volt lights etc. I cannot wrap my head about having to camp where there is power connections or listening to a generator run all the time......we have camped in parks where generators were not allowed from 10pm to 7 am plus no water or electric...just peaceful quietness.....

Some people FEAR propane, after all it comes with caution stickers on it. And thus they do not want any propane..

Please do not ask me why this is, All I know is that it is a PHOBIA (irrational fear of something or another), I have a couple Phobias myself so I can understand how they affect you, but that's not one of 'em.

With enough battery you can power a Residential type fridge, the only time you would absolutely need power is for electric heat.

HOWEVER if the rig is a DIESEL, you could use an oil fired furnace (Aqua Hot/Hydro Hot?) and burn diesel fuel to heat if boondocking in the cold. I mean Propane need not be your only hydrocarbon source.

On the small MH front, Roadtrek has been doing a lot with battery storage, alternators and other items to dispense with propane.

Sportsmobile has also done away with propane with optional equipment -- one can get an all diesel Sprinter upfit that uses a diesel PowerTech generator (3000 watts), a diesel Webasto stove, and a diesel water heater and furnace. This doesn't come cheap, though.

Of course, the appliances from Truma starting to be sold on US shores are game changers. They can take both LP gas and electric, and one model functions as a water heater and furnace. The advantage of this is having the ability to have the basement vents while on electric, so when on FHU, the only propane that gets used is for the stove... and some newer Dometic/SMEV stovetops have an electric burner as well.

Finally, there are fuel cells like the EFOY methanol burner and the Truma VeGA propane burner. Either of these will easily handle the battery draw that a compressor fridge makes.

I personally like propane, because it is one of the safer fuels we have, and it can last indefinitely. It is nice to have multiple fuel choices, as with the Truma appliance, so if one has FHU, no fuel needs to be consumed, but while boondocking, the most efficient means can be used, be it a generator in the daytime or propane at night.

I look forward to 10 more posts on what 50a service is.

2oldman wrote:

aslakson wrote:
Some of the new high-end all-electric coaches are actually listed at 100 amps . . .

That's actually what 50a service is.

Not precisely; 50A service is 50A 240V split phase service, the same power as a 50A household service entrance would have. You can't successfully connect a single 120V 100A electrical device to it--though, of course, there's nothing on an RV that meets that description, so it's perhaps a bit academic. I understand the "100A" coaches typically have two 50A 240V split phase inlets.

The main confusion seems to come from specifying amperage apart from voltage. Perhaps it would be better to rate the various connections as as 3.6 kVA (120V 30A service), 12 kVA (120/240V 50A service), and 24 kVA (120/240V 100A service).

Similar considerations come up when combining batteries in the DC system. Two 200 Ah 6V batteries are wired together to make a 200 Ah 12V battery (if put in series) or a 400 Ah 6V battery (if put in parallel). The energy storage ability of a battery cannot be expressed solely in Ah without the corresponding working voltage; Both of these setups can supply a theoretical 2.4 kWh of energy.

aslakson wrote:
Some of the new high-end all-electric coaches are actually listed at 100 amps . . .

That's actually what 50a service is.

Nothing new. Larger cruising boats have been that way for years.

Being all 110VAC is all well & good IF hooked up to shorepower all the time or IF you have a huge battery bank & a large inverter to feed off of it. This is fine on boats where weight is not an issue & the weight of 6 8D house batterys makes no difference at all.

Weight is a big issue for a towable, even a class A.

If the unit is all 110VAC you don't need to be hooked up to shorepower or have the genny running. Only the A/C, stove & waterheater need power big time. A decent battery bank & inverter will run a 110VAC only fridge. Hot water stays hot for many hours without being on.

With such a rig dry camping needs a little planning but it is doable, running the genny only when necessary.