And Texas Caves In

JRscooby wrote:
I might of missed it, but the only reason to not have the "Shelter in Place" order is "people losing jobs". But that does not make sense, because people doing the important work are still doing it. What we really need to do is have as many people as possible stay home but protect their income

Can we add about $10,000.00 to the income tax you currently pay to pay for your "protect their income" program. Because all were doing now is putting it on the credit card for our kids and grandkids to pay. Nothing like adding another $10T to the national debt to pay for something that didn't have to go down this way.
Our kids are going to be so proud of us to leave them with this debt on top of what we already handed them.

tomman58 wrote:

Cummins12V98 wrote:
Do you y'all understand 90% of the workforce is STILL WORKING!!!

So that tells me to keeping your distance and practicing personal hygiene and wearing a mask with the people working is working. So get yer asses back to work!!!

90% eh where did you get those stats???? I'm thinking somewhere between 25 and 30% but that is a "guess".

Well, don't guess. Current best available data I could find puts it at about 14% currently, which is horrible, considering predictions are it will peak around 20%.
Folks like 12V are too smug to recognize the issue apparently, because it doesn't affect him personally. But it takes all types....
While I'm still working, busy as ever, I've put all my hourly employees on standby (layoff essentially).
The realization is those most affected by not having a paycheck for a few weeks or months are those most affected. Even though 12V thinks that someone who is too uneducated (best word I could come up with) to have a "good" job should be able to craft their lives around a menial job and have a nest egg for a rainy day in the bank, that's not the case and it never will be.

However if there is a lesson to be learned for everyone here, is pick and choose your career to be a "necessary" function in the face of disparity, whether it be economic recession, war or a pandemic...

What is more upsetting is that the govt crafted the stimulus to fully include the top 5% of wage earners in the country, completely which is $ that should not be needed by pretty much any household that makes $150k a year and up.
I guess it's probably a small percentage though and good for votes!

JRscooby wrote:
I might of missed it, but the only reason to not have the "Shelter in Place" order is "people losing jobs". But that does not make sense, because people doing the important work are still doing it. What we really need to do is have as many people as possible stay home but protect their income

Yes, you missed it. Several times. That's not the only reason.

1 - People will become more unhealthy due to stay at home orders.
2 - People will die due to stay at home orders. Really.

Of course, the selfish cowards who are already unhealthy don't care about those other people; they only care about themselves. Well, I don't care about them, either. It's their own fault that they are fat, diabetic, and hooked up to a CPAP machine.

How will people become unhealthy and die due to stay at home orders? There are 2 principal causes, but there are surely others.

1 - People will exercise less (it's happening to me) and that will continue for some after life returns to normal. It's much easier for a human to quit an exercise program than to start an exercise program.

2 - Some people who are living paycheck to paycheck will fall into despair and depression and turn to alcohol and drugs and some of them will die due to overdoses, suicide, and other related health problems.

It is immoral to trade one group of innocent lives to save another group of lives even if the other group of lives is larger, which it may not be in this case. (The numbers below are estimates for the US only)

I'd estimate about 100 million Americans exercise regularly. Gyms are closed and some parks are closed and you want them to stay in the house and hide under their bed. No exercise there.

If 1% (that's conservative) of those people stop exercising forever, that's 1 million people. It's much easier to stop a program of regular exercise than it is to start one. Regular exercise probably extends life by about 5 healthy years on average. That's 5 million lifeyears that are lost.

Stay at home might save 100,000 lives from COVID-19. Those lives belong mostly to old, unhealthy people so you may have saved 5 years of life on average. That's 500,000 lifeyears.

Congratulations stay at home folks; you just traded 5 million lifeyears to save 500,000 lifeyears. What other brilliant ideas do you have?

The problem is we are letting scientists make public policy. Some great leaders are in fact saying "We will let science tell us when to re-open our state." That is a bad idea. Scientists should not make public policy. The public should make public policy. That's why it's called "public policy". We should listen to the scientists, but that's not the only factor.

Scientists don't know what is best for society. They only know science. That is not the same thing. You have to consider a lot of factors like the economy and all aspects of health to know what is best for society. If you let scientists make public policy we would spend all our money on a rocket to Pluto.

tomman58 wrote:

Cummins12V98 wrote:
Do you y'all understand 90% of the workforce is STILL WORKING!!!

So that tells me to keeping your distance and practicing personal hygiene and wearing a mask with the people working is working. So get yer asses back to work!!!

90% eh where did you get those stats???? I'm thinking somewhere between 25 and 30% but that is a "guess".

Us Labor statistics. 1/1/2020 164,606,000 workforce. Out of work now 22,000,000. Percentage of workforce out of work = .13%

87% of workforce is still working based on latest numbers.

BETTER ??????

tomman58 wrote:

Cummins12V98 wrote:
Do you y'all understand 90% of the workforce is STILL WORKING!!!

So that tells me to keeping your distance and practicing personal hygiene and wearing a mask with the people working is working. So get yer asses back to work!!!

90% eh where did you get those stats???? I'm thinking somewhere between 25 and 30% but that is a "guess".

Sure as HE!! wasn't CNN or MSNBC

Turtle n Peeps wrote:
Heard from who? Link please if you have it.

Cuomo WAY overestimates the need for ventilators. Gives them away to other states.

So it looks like Cuomo's gloom and doom ventilator need didn't pan out for him. That's a good thing.

We now know the computer modeling they used sucked about as bad as Windows Vista.

It's beginning to look like CDC's 60K death toll is going to be close to correct. It's good to see they are finally starting to use better modeling because the last one sucked!

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/factcheck/2020/04/01/fact-check-does-new-york-have-stockpile-unneeded-ventilators/5097170002/

"Fact check: Does New York have a stockpile of thousands of unneeded ventilators?
Matthew Brown
USA TODAY
The claim: New York Gov. Andrew Cuomo admitted the state has thousands of ventilators in stockpile, despite requesting more from the federal government

How many ventilators are available and needed in New York has become a fierce topic of debate as demand rises amid the state’s worsening coronavirus outbreak.

On Friday, President Donald Trump tweeted, “Thousand of Federal Government (delivered) Ventilators found in New York storage. N.Y. must distribute NOW!”

Gov. Andrew Cuomo responded to the claim that day, saying, “Yes, they’re in a stockpile because that’s where the supposed to be because we don’t need them yet. We need them for the apex.”

The governor’s comments circulated in several media outlets, including in a Breitbart News story headlined “Gov. Cuomo Admits Stockpile Of Thousands Of Unused Ventilators,” which gained significant traction on social media. Red State Observer reposted the piece, as well.

In an interview with Fox News earlier last week, Vice President Mike Pence said the federal government had sent 2,000 ventilators and was sending another 2,000 as of last week. Those additional units would be on top of New York’s stockpile of ventilators.
New York’s ventilator stockpile and pandemic preparedness

Neither the White House nor the New York Governor’s Mansion disagrees that the state has thousands of ventilators in stockpile. The implication that these machines are thus unnecessary or that New York had enough ventilators to weather the crisis without an increased supply, however, is misleading.

Cuomo panned Trump’s assertion on Twitter that New York had thousands of unused ventilators that needed to be distributed "now!" as “incorrect and grossly uninformed."

It is unclear how severe the coronavirus pandemic will become in the United States. The number of cases continues to rise across the country, worrying both policymakers and experts that the health care system will not be able to handle the most severe projections.

Right now, there are 6,500 ventilators deployed in downstate New York, according to the John Bruno, the Director of Public Information for the NYS Department of Health.

"An additional 4,400 have been provided by the federal government," Bruno told USA TODAY, with 2,400 deployed in the New York City and 2,000 allocated for the rest of the state. The state still has 800 ventilators in its stockpile; 1,000 machines have already been deployed from the reserve."

Maintenance

Turtle n Peeps wrote:

JRscooby wrote:
Last I heard, Sweden is having more cases then countries around.
Another thought about laid off medical workers. If the hospitals can not get the equipment to protect them might be better not have them come to work.

Heard from who? Link please if you have it.

Cuomo WAY overestimates the need for ventilators. Gives them away to other states.

So it looks like Cuomo's gloom and doom ventilator need didn't pan out for him. That's a good thing.

We now know the computer modeling they used sucked about as bad as Windows Vista.

It's beginning to look like CDC's 60K death toll is going to be close to correct. It's good to see they are finally starting to use better modeling because the last one sucked!

The story about Sweden was broadcast by BBC.
And about the defect in modeling; I thought the outcome was predicted based on how people where acting. Change the actions, the outcome will change.

fj12ryder wrote:
"What we really need to do is have as many people as possible stay home but protect their income."

A good idea, but seems difficult to actually put into operation. No work=No income.

Slight change; No work=No income, unless you are rich. Somehow what claims to be the richest country in the world has no problem handing the people that have more money than they can ever spend more, but the thought of giving people enough to buy food and pay rent is pure evil. What system of morality is that from?

Cummins12V98 wrote:
Do you y'all understand 90% of the workforce is STILL WORKING!!!

So that tells me to keeping your distance and practicing personal hygiene and wearing a mask with the people working is working. So get yer asses back to work!!!

90% eh where did you get those stats???? I'm thinking somewhere between 25 and 30% but that is a "guess".

22 million unemployed. I can tell you that nowhere near 90% of the businesses here where I live are open.

Mike