C Max Question

willald wrote:

DouglasC wrote:
...On the Fusion, when the key is back as far as it will go towards "OFF",and the tranmission is in Neutral, the brakes are not powered and I set the pressure on the Brake Buddy as I normally would (about 70#).

If the Brake Buddy is set properly and one drives in a normal manner, the Brake Buddy never engages (it's only set to engage in a near panic stop situation), therefore there is no drain on the battery.

If you feel more comfortable using a charge line, then by all means do it. I'm just telling you that I've towed these 2 hybrids over 30,000 miles and never had a "dead" battery problem. "To each his own."

Yeah, I think this is another example that shows there is no 'one size fits all' for hardly anything.

You have your brake buddy set to only engage brakes in a near 'panic stop' situation. Soo, basically, your toad brakes rarely if ever are engaged. Between that, and putting the ignition in that 'almost OFF' position...Yep, you're right, your toad battery is probably not going to get run down much at all.

However, most folks prefer to have a bit more toad braking than that, so your approach could lead to a dead battery pretty quickly if that was the case. Hence the need for a charge line.

You have chosen not to use Ford's recommendation about keeping key in ACC position.

I, as well as I believe many other folks, are a bit too 'paranoid' to try that, and would prefer to stick to the manufacturer's recommended procedure as much as possible.

With your 2012 Fusion hybrid, active braking is turned off when you turn key to that 'almost OFF' position.

That is NOT the case on my 2013 Fusion. With mine, active braking stays on regardless of ignition switch position, so without a charge line on a 2013 model, you WILL run the battery down when towing long distances, regardless what position you leave key in (unless you set your brake system to only come on during 'panic stops', something I don't think many folks do).

Will

I've towed an Edge and Flex for 5 years and looking at what to replace with the Flex with and considering a hybrid so interested in this topic.

Every ford vehicle I have ever had has 4 positions for the key; off; acc; on; start. Do the hybrids have another position?

I have always left the key in the acc position and never had a problem with a dead battery so never had the need for a charge wire. It sounds as though I will need the charge wire if I buy a 2013 or later hybrid, is this correct?

The comment about toad braking only during emergency stops probably isn't accurate. Brake buddy and others introduced proportional braking systems around 2007 so most systems older than that will not have proportional capability.

I have towed for 10's of thousands of miles and only recall the brake buddy engaging once. Based on my experience I really don't see a need for proportional braking and would prefer not to have it if it means charging requirements for the toad.

I was wrong!!! I just checked my manual just to be sure and it does state to turn the key back to the acc position. Sorry Will! I have been turning the key back as far as it will go after putting the trans in neutral and I believe when I do this it ends up in the acc position. It has worked well the last year but I will further check to make sure I do have it in the correct position.

Just make certain you get a 12V line installed in your toad to keep its battery charged.

super_camper wrote:
I've towed an Edge and Flex for 5 years and looking at what to replace with the Flex with and considering a hybrid so interested in this topic.

Every ford vehicle I have ever had has 4 positions for the key; off; acc; on; start. Do the hybrids have another position?

No, they have those same positions. DouglasC was talking about how he puts his switch kind of in between the ACC and OFF position. Apparently by doing that, on his 2012 Fusion it shuts everything off and prevents battery drain.

I have always left the key in the acc position and never had a problem with a dead battery so never had the need for a charge wire. It sounds as though I will need the charge wire if I buy a 2013 or later hybrid, is this correct?

..Yes. As I mentioned earlier, on our 2013 Fusion, I put an ammeter across the battery wire with ignition in ACC position, everything turned off, and tranny in neutral. Still, there was a draw of around 3 amps. Sooo, at least with the 2013 models, leaving it in ACC position results in 3 amps of draw from the battery. Thats enough draw I found, that after 4 hours towing the battery was so weak it wouldn't even operate the power locks. That happened exactly once to us, at which point I installed the charge line. :)

You might get around that by pulling some fuses, or putting ignition switch in the 'in-between' position as DouglasC does. IMO, though, running a charge line is a better solution. That way, you never have to worry about battery drain no matter what brake system you use or how you set it up. That, and like I said before, there may be some other reason Ford wants you to put it in ACC position we don't know about, and I'd rather stick with that recommendation if possible.

Will

I thought I would update you on our experience pulling the CMax over Memorial Day weekend. On the way out to Burlington (6 and a half hours) we followed the instructions and as several others experienced, we had a dead battery when we arrived. On the way home, we stopped at about 3 hours and started the car and let it run for 1-2 minutes. Then, continued on the rest of the way. Started fine when we got home. Any thoughts as to if that would be all it would take? A short stop every three hours? If so...we can handle that. Wondering though if we went multiple days in a row such as when we cross the country in 5 days or so. Would the cumulative effects of drawing it down make it not work in that case?

You do need that charge line from the MH. We have never had a dead battery after many hours of travel.

You need the charge line, bottom line. I think what you experienced confirms that. It'll make things sooo much easier for you, because then you won't have to worry or think about it again.

Yes, you can 'get by' without it by stopping every few hours and running the engine to recharge the battery like you did on the way home.
However, the problem is this: 12V starting batteries like what is in cars (your C Max), were not meant to be constantly drawn down low like that, then charged back up. That is 'deep-cycle' use, and they are not meant for that. If you do it reguarly as you're advocating, you could very well shorten the battery's lifespan. Might be replacing it a bit more often than you otherwise would. A few $$ for a charge line is MUCH cheaper than spending $100 for a battery before its time.

Also, your C Max's electrical system probably was not designed, either, to constantly be re-charging a low 12V battery. You could eventually do damage there, too.

Okay...so will my local rv dealer know what I am talking about when I ask for a charge line? Or is it the Ford dealer I have to deal with. How is it connected? (Automobile mechanically challenged)

tjholyoke wrote:
Okay...so will my local rv dealer know what I am talking about when I ask for a charge line? Or is it the Ford dealer I have to deal with. How is it connected? (Automobile mechanically challenged)

RV dealer should be able to do it, and would be best bet if you don't want to do it yourself. Just tell them you need a (fused) charge line run from the MH to your C Max's battery, they should know what you mean.

It is very simple to add, though. I'm somewhat 'Automobile mechanically challenged' also, but this in one of the few things I installed myself pretty easily, based on various notes, instructions, etc. I found here on this forum.

In a nutshell, here's what I did:

1. Locate a charge wire in wiring on back of MH (around hitch), that has 12V on it whenever ignition is on (may have it when ignition is off as well). It should have been there from the factory, although may be taped or wrapped up since its not being used. Was a red #10 gauge wire in my case. Insure this wire is fused on MH before it goes to the battery (again, should be that way from the factory).

2. Wire that charge line to one of the unused terminals/conduits in your umbilical cord going to the car. If you are using a six-way umbilical cord, the terminal/conduit in the center frequently labeled '12V' is a good choice, and typically is not used for tail light wiring.

3. On the car (C Max), wire appropriate terminal (center terminal if you followed the previous suggestion) from the six-round connector to the + terminal of your car's battery, using #10 or #12 gauge wire. Be SURE you run it through an inline fuse!! Do NOT skip that part, very important you protect that line with a fuse on car end. 10, 15 or 20 amp fuse should be good.

4. Insure there is an appropriate ground connection from MH to Car. This should already be there from the tail light wiring, but you may want to upgrade the ground wire on the car (ground wire going from the 6-round connector to chassis ground on the car) to a #10 or #12 gauge wire.

Anyway, hope this helps. PM me if you need further, more specific instructions.

Will

I towed my Cmax Energi for the first time over the holiday. I don't have a key. So, I push the brake and push the "on" button (the car into EV mode), shift into neutral and push the "on" button again to turn the car off. A message appears in the far left display saying to put the gearshift in park. Now, I'm ready to tow. Steering is unlocked. The displays go out, and I'm good to go. However, I've yet to figure out how to start the engine when not moving, thus recharging the battery at intervals. Consequently, I had a dead battery on my 7 1/2 hour return trip. (On the trip down we used the car midway and it charged then.) Does anyone know how to start the gas engine while still hooked up and sitting still on the Energi?