Converting from 30 Amp to 50 amp ?

DrewE wrote:

fairway2002 wrote:
Your buying a new 50 amp cord. Just run a 50 amp cord and barker box and keep 30 amp cord as is. if park has 50 amp plug is will have 30 amp.

Please don't do what (it appears to me that) this is suggesting. You should never ever have two inlet cords connected together; you must have some sort of a transfer switch arrangement that positively eliminates any possibility of one cord being energized from the other when one is plugged in.

If you have the 30A and 50A cords both connected to the same main breaker (or some similar arrangement), the unplugged end of the cord not in use will be hot and be a shock hazard. If both are plugged into a power box and the phases happen to be right, you can get a dead short between the two legs through the cords; in that case, one very much hopes that the breakers for the power post are working properly!

It would be safe, though rather unnecessarily complicated in my opinion, to have a 30A circuit off of the 50A panel feeding a 30A receptacle to plug the 30A shore power cord into, somewhat like how some RVs hook up a generator with a socket to plug the shore cord into. In this case, the 50A panel and circuits would be completely separated from the 30A panel and circuits aside from plugging into the new 30A receptacle.

Don't worry; I dismissed that the minute I read it !

jack L

NanciL wrote:

LarryJM wrote:

NanciL wrote:
What would it entail to convert from a 30 amp service to a 50 amp one?

I am thinking just a new 50/60 amp panel, a new power cord, and then a 30 amp breaker and cord from the new panel to feed the existing one.

Any thing else ?

Jack L

Several of us have converted our trailers to a dual 30A service doubling the OEM service at a fraction of the cost of a full 50A service. I considered going the 50A route, but the cost was extreme, I would have lost a lot of good 30A equip (original 30A detachable cord and spare 30A extension and all my 30A dogbones). You can see how and what I did along with costs and where I got the material in the album HERE

I still have to watch what I use since the factory wiring still provides for the A/C, microwave, and WH which alone all would draw more than 30A just by themselves, but all me extra stuff (elec. space heaters, convection/toaster oven, coffee pot, etc. are now run off my second service). I also did not have to touch or modify any of the OEM 30A service to do this so it's 100% reversible.

Larry

You are missing what I am describing. I will only have one 50 amp service coming into the trailer to a new 60 amp panel.
My 30 amp panel will now be fed from a 30 amp breaker in the new panel, which will keep that and all its secondary wiring to outlets, microwave and Ac unit the exact same.

The only cost will be the new panel, and new 50 amp power cord.
my labor is free

jack L

No I didn't misunderstand what you are trying to do, I was only offering what I think is the best and most cost effective alternative to do essentially what you are wanting. I would HIGHLY RECOMMEND you first go to an RV store or a neighbor at a CG who has a 50A cord and trying wrestle that thing around and coil it up and see just how big, heavy, and stiff it can be. I couldn't see a 50A "mouse hole" setup trying to stuff than 2x4 back into that confined space. For close to just the cost of the detachable 50A service entrance setup you can do my complete system. Not only does my method allow to hookup a 60A dual service system where 50A pedestal service is available, but I can get 50A service from a 30A only pedestal by hooking up my OEM service to the 30A pedestal outlet and then using the 20A aux outlet usually found on all pedestals to feed my second 30A service. Only downside with that is I would have to watch what I plug into my second 30A service outlets in the trailer since they will now be limited to the 20A pedestal outlet by the two 15A breakers in the second service subpanel in the trailer.

With your system you will also need new dogbones so you can hook up your 50A service to 30A only pedestals and to household type 15/20A outlets when at residences w/o RV electrical setup service.

Doing what you are thinking is going to get you at best 20A more than what I have and I bet the cost will be about 3 to 4X what I spent on my system.

Larry

fairway2002 wrote:
Your buying a new 50 amp cord. Just run a 50 amp cord and barker box and keep 30 amp cord as is. if park has 50 amp plug is will have 30 amp.

Please don't do what (it appears to me that) this is suggesting. You should never ever have two inlet cords connected together; you must have some sort of a transfer switch arrangement that positively eliminates any possibility of one cord being energized from the other when one is plugged in.

If you have the 30A and 50A cords both connected to the same main breaker (or some similar arrangement), the unplugged end of the cord not in use will be hot and be a shock hazard. If both are plugged into a power box and the phases happen to be right, you can get a dead short between the two legs through the cords; in that case, one very much hopes that the breakers for the power post are working properly!

It would be safe, though rather unnecessarily complicated in my opinion, to have a 30A circuit off of the 50A panel feeding a 30A receptacle to plug the 30A shore power cord into, somewhat like how some RVs hook up a generator with a socket to plug the shore cord into. In this case, the 50A panel and circuits would be completely separated from the 30A panel and circuits aside from plugging into the new 30A receptacle.

myredracer wrote:

NanciL wrote:

Every state park I have stayed in in the past five years has 50 and 30 amp pedestals. I am putting this trailer on a permanent site that has 50, so that is not my concern
jack L

Well of course - that's your hard earned tax dollars at work in state parks... :W Not many private CGs like that. Wish they had memberships in state parks, they're typically very nice.

If you are going to have 50 amps on a permanent site, then it makes sense to replace the old 30 amp panel with a new 50/60 amp 120/240 volt one in the same location. Pretty straightforward, esp. with a background in electrical work (same here). Depending on the panel location, may be a challenge to route the 50 amp cable to the new power inlet (or mouse hole). Not sure if a 2nd 30 amp panel would be any easier in the overall and could depend on your specific unit. Can't think of anything tricky in upgrading the panel. Make sure the neutral is not bonded to ground and that the ground to the frame is good. May want to balance the loads between each leg of the 120/240 volts?

If following the NEC (art. 551) it specifies a power inlet to be on the left side within 15' of the rear, or on the rear (within 18" of left side). But you are allowed to install it farther away if the power cord is longer. So it looks like you could install the inlet anywhere you want if it makes it easier to get the new #6 cable to the new panel. art. 551 - interesting reading for those into electrical stuff...

FWIW, in most cases, it is possible to run branch circuit wiring totally concealed. #14 & #12 romex can be run inside interior walls, dinette seating, under/around bathtub/shower, inside cabinetry, etc. and in the ceiling cavity. To run in the ceiling, remove speakers, AC trim, skylight bezel, lights, etc. for access points and use a fish tape to run from access point to access point. I've been able to run lots of wiring (romex, low voltage, coax) from the front of our unit to the rear all 100% concealed. Time consuming (and tricky in some spots) but can be done and makes for a better finished product. If an enclosed underbelly, can always run wiring there but it's a lot of work to re&re the coroplast.

While in there, perhaps install a hard-wired EMS?

Never thought of a hard wired EMS. That is a good point.
I have a portable plug in one now at the pedestal and worry that it might walk!

Jack L

Your buying a new 50 amp cord. Just run a 50 amp cord and barker box and keep 30 amp cord as is. if park has 50 amp plug is will have 30 amp.

NanciL wrote:

Every state park I have stayed in in the past five years has 50 and 30 amp pedestals. I am putting this trailer on a permanent site that has 50, so that is not my concern
jack L

Well of course - that's your hard earned tax dollars at work in state parks... :W Not many private CGs like that. Wish they had memberships in state parks, they're typically very nice.

If you are going to have 50 amps on a permanent site, then it makes sense to replace the old 30 amp panel with a new 50/60 amp 120/240 volt one in the same location. Pretty straightforward, esp. with a background in electrical work (same here). Depending on the panel location, may be a challenge to route the 50 amp cable to the new power inlet (or mouse hole). Not sure if a 2nd 30 amp panel would be any easier in the overall and could depend on your specific unit. Can't think of anything tricky in upgrading the panel. Make sure the neutral is not bonded to ground and that the ground to the frame is good. May want to balance the loads between each leg of the 120/240 volts?

If following the NEC (art. 551) it specifies a power inlet to be on the left side within 15' of the rear, or on the rear (within 18" of left side). But you are allowed to install it farther away if the power cord is longer. So it looks like you could install the inlet anywhere you want if it makes it easier to get the new #6 cable to the new panel. art. 551 - interesting reading for those into electrical stuff...

FWIW, in most cases, it is possible to run branch circuit wiring totally concealed. #14 & #12 romex can be run inside interior walls, dinette seating, under/around bathtub/shower, inside cabinetry, etc. and in the ceiling cavity. To run in the ceiling, remove speakers, AC trim, skylight bezel, lights, etc. for access points and use a fish tape to run from access point to access point. I've been able to run lots of wiring (romex, low voltage, coax) from the front of our unit to the rear all 100% concealed. Time consuming (and tricky in some spots) but can be done and makes for a better finished product. If an enclosed underbelly, can always run wiring there but it's a lot of work to re&re the coroplast.

While in there, perhaps install a hard-wired EMS?

Jack, yes that will work. You can feed the existing 30A panel off of one leg of the 50A service and connect other loads to the other leg. Good luck.

On our first trailer with 30 amp service we just counted: only two at a time of AC, microwave, hair dryer, toaster, & iron. Then came the second trailer with 30 amp service and an electric element in the water heater, but no way to predict when it would turn on, and the only switch being outside. So, I decided that I wanted the 120/240 split connection, but I didn’t have a place inside the trailer for a new 120/240 panel. NEC code says the panel must be “accessible”.

So, I separated the microwave circuit and the water heater circuit from the 30 amp OEM panel. I wired in two new 12 gauge with ground black type SO cables hooked to these two circuits, and ran them out a big cable hatch door that I installed in place of the small OEM hole, right beside the existing 30 amp cable. So, I have 3 cables coming out the hatch. I built a 30 amp 120/240 distribution panel on a board that sits outside, with one 30 amp outlet, and two 15 amp outlets. It is fed by a 6 gauge 4 conductor cable with a 50 amp plug. I carry every Camco electrical adapter known to mankind, and this setup gives ultimate flexibility. I can just plug into 50 amps at the pedestal. Or, I can put a 30 to 50 adapter on the 50 amp plug and count devices (with the water heater turned off), or I can plug the OEM 30 amp cable into a 30 amp supply, and then plug the microwave 15 amp cable into the outlet on the side of the trailer. One disadvantage of my design is that it takes a little longer to set up. One advantage, is that it will be very easy to reverse at trade in time.

Couple of notes:
1) Not all pedestals are wired equal. If the pedestal has one 30 amp outlet and one 15 amp outlet, they may be powered by one 30 breaker back at the distribution panel limiting total current to 30 amps.
2) All panels after the pedestal (including the pedestal actually) must have separate neutral and ground bus bars. The smaller boxes usually don’t come with the second bus bar, so one needs to be purchased and screwed to the metal case (assuming that the neutral bar is isolated from the case).
3) A additional advantage of the 50 amp 120/240 connection is reduced voltage drop when the load is balanced on both legs—helps on long cable runs.

smkettner wrote:
Remove the 30 amp panel and insert 50 amp, tedious but not hard. New cord is easy, just money. The hard part is replacing the romex through hidden spaces from the cord entry to the electric panel. If you have access then it is a slam dunk.

Why remove the 30 ? That would be stupid!
All that is fed from that will just stay the exact same. The only thing that will change from it is, it's feed will be disconnected and it will now be sub fed from the new 50 amp panel

If I removed the 30 amp panel, I would have to reconnect everything that is now fed from it to the new 50 amp one

Jack L

Remove the 30 amp panel and insert 50 amp, tedious but not hard. New cord is easy, just money. The hard part is replacing the romex through hidden spaces from the cord entry to the electric panel. If you have access then it is a slam dunk.