E15 Gas Introduced, Car Mfgs Warn Not To Use It

At this point Im going to go out and get "gassed" and its not going to be ethanol!:p

mpierce wrote:

dodge guy wrote:
The energy in fuel with 10% E is way less. Enough that my X could barely hold 55mph in a headwind. When i switched to 93 octane my power and mileage came back. When i fill up in WI with real gas my X runs like it was supposed to.

The ethanol is 10% less energy per gallon than gas. There is a 10% mix. So, 10% of 10% means there is 1% less energy per gallon.

If the engine is adjusted to compensate, which all in the last 20 years or so are, the power will be the same. You could burn 1% more fuel to do it.

So, if you had been getting 25 mpg with straight gasoline, you could drop to 24.75 mpg. I defy you to be able to tell that.

I have been running it since the 80's in all my engines on the farm, and there are a LOT of them, including small ones. I have not had ONE SINGLE PROBLEM.

Not sure in your numbers either, but i can tell you that i can see the difference in my mileage and can definitely feel it power wise. Ethanol fuel is good for the corn growers and bad for motorists!

JaxDad wrote:

mpierce wrote:

The ethanol is 10% less energy per gallon than gas. There is a 10% mix. So, 10% of 10% means there is 1% less energy per gallon.

I think your numbers are a little off. Gasoline contains ~114,100 BTU's per gallon. Ethanol contains ~76,100 BTU's per gallon.

That means Ethanol contains 66.67% of the energy of gasoline, not 90% less.

In the case of E15 then you would be losing ~15% of the energy per gallon.

Quit it. That would be true if you didn't get any energy out of alkie. I hope you know that's not true?

Now, you can redo you math or just read this because the math is already done. :B

It "drives me crazy" the EPA mandated ethanol in gasoline. They make ethanol from corn. Corn is used to feed people and animals. Bad corn crop? They'll still make the same or more ethanol and the price of food for people and animals go up. Obviously clean air for people is better than the cost of food. Before wide-spread us of ethanol they were making progress to making vehicles cleaner burning and the air was getting cleaner. Some cities are located in basins where air quality will always be lower. Glad I live in an area that has one of the cleanest air in the state. Of course, we get "polar vortexes" and sometimes record snowfalls (2nd or 3rd snowiest year this year). There's gotta be a better way.

JaxDad wrote:

Turtle n Peeps wrote:


It's no wonder people are confused. :S

BTW, ethanol in gasoline certainly is about pollution. Do a smog test with 100% gasoline and then switch to E85 and see which comes out better in HC's.

Speaking of confusing.

How can burning more gasoline, not enathanol, nor ethanol / gasoline blend, result in anything MORE pollution?

I don't know what you mean by burning more gasoline? If you burn 100% gasoline you have the most energy content. If you burn E10 you will have slightly less energy (as explained above) but it will be a cleaner fuel (air pollution wise) than straight gasoline and you will burn a less "amount" of "straight gasoline" because you will now be burning a % of alkie in it's place.

Look at it this way:

It takes fuel to clean the DPF in diesels. Somewhere around 1 to 2 gallons average/ tank of fuel. Some would say that is a waste of fuel. But what they don't get is the exhaust that comes out of the diesel pipe by using this tiny amount of fuel is now EXTREEMLY clean.

It took energy to clean the air that comes out of the pipe. Another way to look at it is this. It takes energy (electricity) to run your vacuum cleaner. So it takes energy to clean the carpets in your house.

Do you want to use a tiny bit of energy to have clean carpets? Or do you want to use no energy and have nasty carpets forever? Do you want to use a tiny bit of energy to clean the air that comes out of your tail pipe? Or do you want nasty air forever?

BTW, mpierce's figures are slightly off. E10 in a modern EFI engine typically burns about 3 to 4% more fuel than E0. Lets not miss the point of his great post though. It takes a very small amount of energy to have clean air.

Let me close by saying I'm no alkie fan. (Well, EverClear is pretty good) :) I personally think E85 is a VERY poor idea because "I" think it's negative energy. But, E10 is a great idea for air pollution because it works. How do I know it works? I have seen it and dealt with it first hand.

mpierce wrote:

The ethanol is 10% less energy per gallon than gas. There is a 10% mix. So, 10% of 10% means there is 1% less energy per gallon.

I think your numbers are a little off. Gasoline contains ~114,100 BTU's per gallon. Ethanol contains ~76,100 BTU's per gallon.

That means Ethanol contains 66.67% of the energy of gasoline, not 90% less.

In the case of E15 then you would be losing ~15% of the energy per gallon.

Turtle n Peeps wrote:


It's no wonder people are confused. :S

BTW, ethanol in gasoline certainly is about pollution. Do a smog test with 100% gasoline and then switch to E85 and see which comes out better in HC's.

Speaking of confusing.

How can burning more gasoline, not enathanol, nor ethanol / gasoline blend, result in anything MORE pollution?

dodge guy wrote:
The energy in fuel with 10% E is way less. Enough that my X could barely hold 55mph in a headwind. When i switched to 93 octane my power and mileage came back. When i fill up in WI with real gas my X runs like it was supposed to.

The ethanol is 10% less energy per gallon than gas. There is a 10% mix. So, 10% of 10% means there is 1% less energy per gallon.

If the engine is adjusted to compensate, which all in the last 20 years or so are, the power will be the same. You could burn 1% more fuel to do it.

So, if you had been getting 25 mpg with straight gasoline, you could drop to 24.75 mpg. I defy you to be able to tell that.

I have been running it since the 80's in all my engines on the farm, and there are a LOT of them, including small ones. I have not had ONE SINGLE PROBLEM.

At 10% additives we are having engine problems all across the nation. 15% will do no improving on repair works. Corn gives you gas at times, but if you drink gasoline, it will kill you. This proves that corn and gas don't mix well.

I've said it before and I'll say it again, ethanol in fuel has been here for years and is here to stay whether we like it or not. If an engine manufacturer big or small can't make a reliable engine to run on the stuff they need to get out of the business.