Good and Bad about Blue Ox Sway Pro

I love the system. No troubles once you dail it in as with any system.

John,
Thanks for the explanation! I too now get it! :B

By the way, we'll be over in your neck of the woods next weekend to see our granddaughter graduate from Denison U. at Granville. No trailer though.
Barney

Mike Up wrote:
OK I FINALLY SEE the affect as I was reading an old email from one of their engineers.

He stated this new head offers supperior sway control and now I see why. It finally just dawned on me and it's very simple but very effective.

First as mentioned, the spring bars bend much more than any other makers bars and Blue Ox took advantage of this.

They angled their head more than other heads because they can get away with it because the bars will bow, while other bars would be straighter interfereing with ground clearance and the such.

The steep angle, which is greater than the Reese trunnion, Equalizer brand and even Blue Oxs old head, allows the bar to swing up when pushed outward and load more, putting more push on that side, while the other bar swings inward and down, putting less force than normal, allowing the other side to push toward it, in that direction.

This force isn't done by other system because they don't have the steep head downward tilt that the Blue Ox head has, which is allowed by the bars ability to bend up and not have inteference issues.

There ya Go. Now you got it. While I can see it, and understand the bicycle fork example, I have no good handle on how effective it is. Have not yet thought of a way to calculate the force correction to compare it to the more traditional friction approaches, which is more straightforward.

If my curiosity gets the best of me (has before) I may take one of my old hitches, tilt the head back 15 degrees and go play.

The Blue Ox rotary chain bracket also creates more trunnion bar end lift (force) when the TT & TV becomes more off - center than the traditional chain hanging on a hook. The Blue Ox chain is wrapping around a drum so to speak as the chain and WD bars swings towards the TT. The chain will shorten in vertical length more than a chain hanging off a snap up center hook where the chain only pivots. The swinging chain on a high up pivot has a shallower angle to the chain less than chain wrapped around a drum, which has more mechanical advantage in this case. Granted this WD bar lift action is small however, an increase in spring force will help the steering effect more that they are claiming.

Good luck and let us know if you get one.

John

Mike Up wrote:
Thanks John. I completely agree about what you're saying. The people I talked with at Blue Ox previously, swear that the new Sway Pro controls sway much better than the old with the friction control bolts. They are really proud of the system and proved that point to me, as I spoke to an engineer and the VP and there were several posts.

Unfortunately, my dealer wouldn't pony up for an entire new system and only replaced the obvious broken parts. Now that I'm seeing more damage that couldn't be seen until the system was pulled and dismantled a few times, I'm think I'm done with it. I just don't trust the Reese Dual Cam parts as there maybe other unforseen stresses that could cause failure.

Besides if it was all new, I wouldn't trust it not to bind up again. I wish I would had bought a new Equalizer or Blue Ox system with the new trailer. To many issues with the Dual Cam bars contacting the cam arm lobe brackets and mainly due to Reeses direction saying 5 links are needed which doesn't provide enough clearance.

Thanks again.

Mike,

IMO I think the Equal-i-zer might be the system you would like. While a fine system the Reese just has too many parts and quirks in setting it up like placement of the brackets on the frame and drilling holes, etc. for my liking. I went thru the same process to some extent when I changed from my old single "friction bar" system for our new trailer. Neither the Blue-Ox Pro or Anderson were available at that time, but I still would have chosen the Equal-i-zer since I understand it simplistic approach and just have a hard time putting my faith in things like tapered ball seats and "special" WDH bar tapers to substitute for the more traditional "friction/brute force" methods. Obviously the high end "premium" systems (HA, Pull-Rite, Pro-Pride) are in a category of their own an not a consideration here. The only "quirks" with the Equal-i-zer is/was the "L" brackets (moving, retaining nuts loosening, excessive slop) and improvements addressing some of these minor issues have been incorporated since I got my system back in 2007.

Good luck with whatever you decide.

Larry

Thanks John. I completely agree about what you're saying. The people I talked with at Blue Ox previously, swear that the new Sway Pro controls sway much better than the old with the friction control bolts. They are really proud of the system and proved that point to me, as I spoke to an engineer and the VP and there were several posts.

Unfortunately, my dealer wouldn't pony up for an entire new system and only replaced the obvious broken parts. Now that I'm seeing more damage that couldn't be seen until the system was pulled and dismantled a few times, I'm think I'm done with it. I just don't trust the Reese Dual Cam parts as there maybe other unforseen stresses that could cause failure.

Besides if it was all new, I wouldn't trust it not to bind up again. I wish I would had bought a new Equalizer or Blue Ox system with the new trailer. To many issues with the Dual Cam bars contacting the cam arm lobe brackets and mainly due to Reeses direction saying 5 links are needed which doesn't provide enough clearance.

Thanks again.

OK I FINALLY SEE the affect as I was reading an old email from one of their engineers.

He stated this new head offers supperior sway control and now I see why. It finally just dawned on me and it's very simple but very effective.

First as mentioned, the spring bars bend much more than any other makers bars and Blue Ox took advantage of this.

They angled their head more than other heads because they can get away with it because the bars will bow, while other bars would be straighter interfereing with ground clearance and the such.

The steep angle, which is greater than the Reese trunnion, Equalizer brand and even Blue Oxs old head, allows the bar to swing up when pushed outward and load more, putting more push on that side, while the other bar swings inward and down, putting less force than normal, allowing the other side to push toward it, in that direction.

This force isn't done by other system because they don't have the steep head downward tilt that the Blue Ox head has, which is allowed by the bars ability to bend up and not have inteference issues.

The older head didn't have this steep downward tilt but relied on friction bolts in the head to control sway.

As the engineer pointed out to me, they wanted to do away with the friction bolts as they caused 'dog tracking' in his terminology.

I guess I didn't clearly understand it the first time I read it because I didn't realize it was the same tilt other makers use, but at a more extreme angle coupled with a spring bar that will bow to allow ground clearances.

The old head would also bend the bars BUT the head tilt angle wasn't as severe so the new system will likely have more chain links between the chain bracket and the bar. However with the new rotary latch, it's not as pronounced as the rotary latch limits the chain's motion, which in itself contributes to additional sway control.

I think I'll be purchasing this system. :)

Mike Up wrote:
Very good explanation John.

What I don't really understand, as you have stated as well as Blue Ox, is how having the flex creates more spring force than a simple Reese Trunnion chain system without any sway control added.

Even though the Reese bars don't flex as much, they are still adding in force that's equal, as long as you use the same rated bars, chain links, and head tilt. I just can't see how the flex matters as long as there is force.

Hi Mike,

I agree, this is hard to see. I do not know how effective it is. The thing that is different is the angle of the trunnion pin. That large angle "may" help to guide the TT back towards center with the added WD bar force. If the pin was true vertical like many traditional WD hitches it would not have this same effect. I have read this effect before. See here you can create it on a standard round bar WD hitch.

Andy Thompson of Can Am RV in Canada wrote this: See full article: here

Andy wrote:
6) Next check the angle on the ball mount. The ball mount should angle back as much as possible. This angle on the ball mount acts like the forks of a bicycle - it makes the unit want to stay in a straight ahead position (that is why you can ride a bike with no hands).

While Andy does do some "different" things from time to time, I do respect him enough to listen even if I do not always agree. I have to think more on this castering effect to see if I can sort out more on how that angled pivot pin helps guide the TT back in line.

The down side is, the TT has to go this far out to create the effect.

I agree with your other statements, too much hitch head friction can aggravate dog tracking and not allow the camper to come back in align. The lighter the TT and stronger the head friction, the worse this gets.

Hope this helps

John

Guys, that is almost exactly what said last month about their flattened spring
bars

Here is how I see the similarities and how they differ

The traditional systems with 'cams' and/or the spring bar ends 'bent' both increase
the amount of spring bar tension as the trailer moves off center line

The other sway control or resistance is when those bars move up in tension there
is another resistance to moving off line and that is the force trying to ride up
on the cams or bent bar ends

The Ox works similarly, but the difference is in their chain hookup. There is
less number of links 'free' and most on the Ox are 'captured' within their
system

That then resists the bar from 'pushing' the chain bracket rearwards, whereas
in the traditional system with more 'free' links, the chain just sways or allows
the spring bar to move rearward

Since the spring bars are flattened horizontally, it will bend vertically easier
than sideways. Another sway control item, as the traditional spring bars/trunnions
will bend easier than these (an assumption, as do not know their metallurgy,
hardness, etc)

I like the dialed in cast head tilt. Less components to both corrode and adjust.
Also less to loosen, or fall off

Again, the more I noodle this system, the more I like it

Very good explanation John.

What I don't really understand, as you have stated as well as Blue Ox, is how having the flex creates more spring force than a simple Reese Trunnion chain system without any sway control added.

Even though the Reese bars don't flex as much, they are still adding in force that's equal, as long as you use the same rated bars, chain links, and head tilt. I just can't see how the flex matters as long as there is force.

I do understand everything that you're stating, I just can't see how it's 'better' than a standard none sway control Reese Trunnion system.

It also looks like Blue Ox seems to feel that the Rotary latches take the place of the built in friction sway control in the head.

I did talk to many upper level employees at Blue Ox and they told me that they did away with the friction control in the head because it was causing "dog tracking". I also heard complains from Equalizer brand owners of the same problem with their built in head friction.

Blue Ox obviously replaced this head friction sway control with the rotary chain latches PLUS they can now claim 4 points of sway control like the Equalizer brand.

BarneyS wrote:

Mike Up wrote:


So how is the new Blue Ox Sway Pro system different than the standard Reese Trunnion system without the Dual cam sway control, besides the Blue Ox rotary chain latches.

I can see the downward tilt force of the Blue Ox sway, but this should also be happening in standard trunnion systems with downward head tilt without any additional sway control hardware.

I just don't see how the Blue Ox 'new' Sway Pro head is anything different than a standard trunnion head but without any adjustable tilt.

Thanks

I agree. I still fail to see how the system provides sway control other than the friction between the bar sockets and the hitch head (similar to the Equal-izer). I don't see the chains playing any part at all in sway control. The tilt of the hitch head/chain tension during a turn or sway would be the same as a normal WD hitch so I don't see any difference there either.
Barney

Hi Guys,

The computer simulation model found on their site Blue OX site at minute 2 of the 6:02' U tube attempts to explain how their anti away control works.

This snap shot from that video is part of the explanation



See the angle of the trunnion socket pivot bolts. They are counting on that angle of the trunnion socket pivot bolt. And since you cannot adjust the head tilt, it will be there.

See the cross section of the WD bar. The new WD bars are thin in the long direction with a fine taper in thickness all the way up to the trunnion socket. The WD bar is full width just about from the chain to the trunnion socket. The WD bar will flex (bow) much more easily across the long thin section than the left to right as viewed from the top.

I "think" (do not know for sure), they are counting on the fact that when the TT and TV are far enough off center, (TV at an angle to the TT) the WD bar force will increase and "help" guide the TT to track back on center. The shape of these WD bars are different than most traditional WD bars and will flex different. The angle of the trunnion pivot bolt and the WD bar force create a force in the direction to "help" guide the TT to track back to center.

I can see the concept helping to aide in this high degree off center effect, and I can see the Blue Ox WD bar profile flexing better than the conventional WD hitch WD bar, however... I see it as a reaction verses a prevention method of anti sway control. An unknown is, how much off center angle between the TV and the TT is needed to be effective?

They state that their chain brackets "eliminate sway" at the minute 3:39' mark in the video. I believe that to be an incorrect statement or a marketing promo mix up. I do agree their longer support chain bracket "limits" chain swing. However if someone is using a high rated WD bar in relation to the loaded TW, the chain will be long and still be able to swing more than it would on the more matched WD bar.

The instructions here: http://swaypro.com/Uploads/Docs/BXW0550,0750,1000,1500.pdf state a level TV is a method of proper WD. This one size fits all statement does not apply well to the large set of combinations of TV's. They are also going by 1 to 2" of hitch connection drop as a method of measurement of WD. I "believe" they are trying to simplify the setup verses what WD is suppose to be doing on the TV. I myself would not use that method as there are other variables in the TV that can make their stated end result not be correct.

In the instructions, under troubleshooting it talks about what to adjust for excessive sway. They tell you to properly balance the TT. I and many others 110% agree with this as it is the underlying foundation of proper trailer setup. If the TT is balanced properly it should not be swaying.

As I mentioned before, the quality of craftsmanship is very good. The WD bars and trunnion sockets have some very nice features. The rotary chain brackets offer a different approach and helps on some TT's with LP tank mounting issues. I do prefer their prior generation adjustable hitch head to allow for finer resolution of the WD. The big question comes back to, how effective is the anti sway control as compared the ultra high friction types of anti sway control?

If an RV'er has a well matched stiff suspension, stiff tire flex TV and a well balanced TT for low anti-sway characteristics, well how much force resistance do you need from a anti-sway WD hitch when towing on the ball some 48 to 65" behind the TV rear axle? Reese, Equalizer,Husky,Blue Ox, EAZ lift etc do not put some kind of rating on anti sway control. With all the TT & TV combinations and variables in the setup, how can they? So, well, you are left to figure it our for yourself.

It would be really good if one of their technical staff could help explain how they came to the conclusions they did and what testing helped them make those statements. Their latest video is the most we have had from them on the web.

Hope this helps

John