Have You Tested the Class As or Cs built with Hybrid Motors?

Chainwright wrote:

MrWizard wrote:
"have you tested?"

A simple Google search, would show, none exist for 'consumers' to test

Prototypes or design concepts, ate not out there at the dealer to be tested

Either incredibly naive , or a question intended to be controversial

Why you never went to an Auto Expo or RV expo where they had prototypes? or demos? Surely YOU are not that naive that you think EVERYTHING can be found on the internet. Google only goes so far.

as far as the internet
if somebody saw one in the wild, somebody NOT sworn to secrecy , then Yes there would be a comment out there some where

i repeat "prototypes" are NOT out there for the 'end buyer' to test

prototypes at an expo are show pieces to gauge interest
neither you or I can drive one, and IF someone saw one at an RV show, tested one for a magazine ? then there would be comments out there on the web, anything not under a sworn veil of secrery would be commented on

maybe there is an industry insider reading this forum who has seen one, but if he has, he A'nt talking

Demos that can be driven at an RV show are brought in by dealers hoping to generate sales, It is a 'Production' vehicle

8+ pages of comments and Nobody has said yes to the 'question' and described the experience, pretty well sums it up, it don't exist YET, it will some day,
its 8+ pages of Pro/Con discussion,

i have nothing against the idea, i hope they come about and are cost effective, but it an't here , to be test driven

Cross country in a Juke? I would sooner drive my EV to the airport and hop on a 737.

EVs are and uphill battle to sell to the general public. Poorly trained salesman do not help. Much easier and faster to just close on gasoline, collect commission and move to the next customer vs a long education process. For instance home charging comes across as an expensive boondoggle to the newbies even if it ends up being the best part of EV ownership.

Or maybe GM does not produce the best vehicles even if the drivetrain is well engineered. And IMO the econobox EV is overrated. Very hard to compete on the low end. I would be loath to drive a GM even if it was half the price.

Turtle n Peeps wrote:
Hi John:

My point is this. I don't know what EV you have but my co-worker had/ has a Leaf. Nice little car but very expensive. My other co-worker has a Volt. Again, nice car but it was 40 grand for this tiny car. 40 grand!............for a little tiny car!

I can buy a Juke or something like that for 25 grand. If I only own the Leaf that is going to put me and "most Americans" in a jam because of the range deal. If that's the case, then you have to buy another car and that just adds to more expense.

Now if I buy a Juke I can drive it coast to coast with no worries. If I buy the Juke I would only have to buy one car for all my duties. Not so for the very expensive Leaf or Bolt or Tesla.

This is America. Open country and long distances. EV's work very well in small counties where the distances are not so great.

This is why the Bolt is failing. It has nothing to do with Big Oil or whatever. It does not pan out for the average American and they know that so it shows in EV sales.

Now if gas goes up to lets say 10 or 15 bucks a gallon then EV's would work. They don't now.

Yah I get that. It sounds like you travel a lot so a non long range EV is probably not a viable car for you. We live in the Okanagan Valley in Canada and only occasionally drive to Vancouver so a car with 180 km range and fast charge works good for us. But they are not that pricey. A base 2018 Nissan Leaf with 150 miles of range is just under 30,000 bucks before any kind of incentive or discounts. They are a nice sized very nice car with a bullet proof reputation (other than some battery degradation issues some of the phoenix and Palm Springs crowd had with the first few years. Heat).

But yah I get that. It has to be right for you. What’s viable for me might not be right for you.

The Bolt is kind of a funny situation. Those of us who have been driving EV’s for a while have been shaking our heads a bit. First they only release it to a few states. There was demand for them right away but dealers didn’t even want them on their lot. We got to test drive one a year ago and were told it would be a year before we could even think about buying one. They have good range but most dealers were ordering them without fast charge. Who would even want one without fast charge. There are three of them sitting on a lot here in the Coachella valley that don’t move because they don’t have fast charge. For GM it was all about building a small car with lots of range. They have horrible seats, they are loud and they are small. Honestly they are not a bad car and a lot of this is just my personal preference...well other than the DC fast charge thing. Who would build a car with 250 mile range and then not include DC fast charge. I know you are not an EV Guy so robably don’t see the importance of that but it really makes the difference beteen a useable long trip car and not. You may have to take my word on this one. Anyway, in Britain they have a back log of 5000 orders for them. In Canada just our local dealer is waiting for 4. It just seems like they are trying not to sell them. Sales people are told to sell their custumers anything else.

Re the Volt. Yah. Also not a fan. Feels tight inside. Also not a Hybrid fan. As soon as it burns gas it kinda loses any advantage for me.

Anyway, it doesn’t sound like an EV would suit your lifestyle well. At least in their present form.

John.

Hi John:

My point is this. I don't know what EV you have but my co-worker had/ has a Leaf. Nice little car but very expensive. My other co-worker has a Volt. Again, nice car but it was 40 grand for this tiny car. 40 grand!............for a little tiny car!

I can buy a Juke or something like that for 25 grand. If I only own the Leaf that is going to put me and "most Americans" in a jam because of the range deal. If that's the case, then you have to buy another car and that just adds to more expense.

Now if I buy a Juke I can drive it coast to coast with no worries. If I buy the Juke I would only have to buy one car for all my duties. Not so for the very expensive Leaf or Bolt or Tesla.

This is America. Open country and long distances. EV's work very well in small counties where the distances are not so great.

This is why the Bolt is failing. It has nothing to do with Big Oil or whatever. It does not pan out for the average American and they know that so it shows in EV sales.

Now if gas goes up to lets say 10 or 15 bucks a gallon then EV's would work. They don't now.

Turtle n Peeps wrote:

Time, 9's in a tudor sedan.

I guess you really do have a sense of humor.:R Where's a pic of your street legal car and a 9 second 1/4 mile time slip? Put up or shut up.

Either stick with a production vehicle vs a production vehicle, or stop making the invalid comparisons. A top fuel dragster was also "produced", but it is not a production vehicle, and you DW know it. Stop playing games.

Show me the measured torque numbers on ANY internal combustion engine; there is an electric motor that will beat them. It's funny how every time you make a claim and I shoot it down, you change the wording of the claim (track races, drag races, electric trucks in use, battery replacement costs...). Oh, and keep in mind that the ICE has had more than 100 years of development in motor vehicles to reach the point where they're at; they've pretty much peaked. Electrics, on the other hand, are still in their infancy. Tesla's recently announced "Ludicous Mode" puts the Tesla S's acceleration on par with supercars costing millions of dollars. And there is an even higher performance mode in the works.

time2roll wrote:
Never would have guessed this was a 9 second car.

:B :B My car uses almost the same body that car uses and uses the same technology an ICE that was used over a 100 years ago. Pistons? Yep. Crank? Yep. Carburator? Yep; all same ol, same ol.

Besides 4x4 said: "And the instant torque of electric motors does indeed blow away every internal combustion engine ever produced. Notice the word EVERY? I say lets go! I have an internal combustion engine and it was produced and in a car that was also produced. I say my slow old car will beat any "production electric car" on this planet in a 1/4 mile drag race. If 4x4 wants to go to a specialized car; I can show him an ICE that will beat it.

Afternoon Turtle. I’m not sure I get the not viable thing. There are a ton of us all over the world driving electric cars. Some leaf owners have been commuting with their Leafs for seven years. Lots of leaf cabs north of 200,000 km. Other than washer fluid and brake fluid many have spent virtually nothing on maintenance. I think viable is different for different folks maybe based on their needs. Agreed that they are not suitable for everyone’s needs.

And you can buy a model 3...you just have to be patient. The first 400,000 are spoken for. :). Just funnin with ya. The first non employees got their delivery notices at 8 this morning. Now they have to pee or get off the pot. That might thin the herd a little. Then I can get mine sooner...if Angela let’s me.

John.

Never would have guessed this was a 9 second car.

Turtle n Peeps wrote:
I thought you would never bet. :R I thought you would back up. I was correct.

Back up? Where? I never said I was betting on Musk's production; YOU wanted that bet (a bet that is irrelevant to the subject of this thread). Nice try, though. I guess it really is true; you can justify anything to yourself.

Turtle n Peeps wrote:
Where did I ever bet against technology? Quote me. Oh, that's right, I didn't!

You are the one who said that idea of an electric truck is not viable. You're wrong. They are already in use for short haul delivery trucks, as well as buses. As the battery technology improves, it will obviously make it's way into the long haul sector.

Turtle n Peeps wrote:
I have an 85 years old car with 100 YO IC technology that will kill any "factory production electric car" on the road today in a 1/4 mile drag race.

You 85 year old car is NOT a "factory production gas car"; it is a highly modified street rod "based" on an old car. Apples/oranges. :S

Tesla taking down a Viper in a drag race

How about a vette, or a modded Hellcat?

Or a Tesla X setting a world record for fasted SUV?

Oh, and these Teslas are stock, unlike your highly modified street rod. Care to put your daily driver up against one of them? Didn't think so.:R

Turtle n Peeps wrote:
You want to talk road race? Ok, Tesla can't even finish one lap at Nurburgring under full power.

All Electric at Nurburgring

Hybrid Electric at Nurburgring

Once again, I remind you that the subject is EVs, not just Teslas.

Turtle n Peeps wrote:
To be a success, LI electric cars have to be viable financially. They are not right now. Can you buy a 125K Tesla and save on gas? Sure.........only problem is it will cost you around 125K. Oh, they make a cheaper 3? Oh ya, they do don't they. Bummer you can buy a comparable Toyota or Ford for much, much less and have a very reliable car and have all that money left over for gasoline.

LI batteries don't last forever. In fact my buddy just replaced his in his Toyota for 5 grand. The Tesla S reportedly costs 40 to 50 grand to replace. I can put 10 to 15 engines in my car for that. Does that sound financially viable right now? Ya, me either.

Now, are all EV ideas bad? No, not at all. For instance "if" someone can get the cost of LI batteries down to a reasonable cost something like a city EV garbage truck would be a great idea. Would an over the road big rig be a good idea? No, that's silly right now with cost and range being what it is with LI.

And again, you bet against technology, assuming that there will be no breakthroughs or even brand new direction in electric storage/batteries. BTW, today's cost for a Tesla S battery is about $12K, not $40-50K. And as the numbers out there increase, the price will go down; that is true with any/every new technology. Remember the cost of the first VCRs?

Interesting video on the actual costs of a Tesla vs several other cars.

Obviously it will take decades for IC engines to go away; there are still plenty of carburetors still out there too, but can you buy a new car today with a carb rather than EFI? No. And EVs are already here, and gaining market share every year. So unless you are going to die in less than 10 years, you will start seeing larger electric trucks on the road in your lifetime.

I'm done here.:C Have a nice day.

10 second quarter mile in a T-bucket must be pretty exhilarating.