Lordstown/Camping world to make Electric EV's and class E MH

RambleOnNW wrote:

Lets see some links showing your claims to be true. Authoratative links not from some enviro greenie source.

Dude thinks the prestigious Forbes (est. 1917) and Scientific American (est. 1845) are environmental magazines. Clearly we have nothing further to discuss. Welcome to the Hydrogen Economy.

Scientific American, and I was a subscriber for decades, went woke a number of years ago and has been dropping readers in massive numbers ever since. Forbes is a news magazine and while better than most, just publishes what its writers bring to it.

RambleOnNW,


False is kind of harsh. Perhaps out of date might be more correct.

The trucks in Europe only travel 248 miles before requiring refilling. Your own argument is that we need something that is longer range. Tesla has a 300 mile range on the smaller semi tractors and 500 miles on the larger.

I'm not a hydrogen fan. At this time there is essentially no truly green hydrogen production.

At the same time BEV's were not though possible ten years ago and now are a pleasant reality.

I keep hoping that Sono motors will make a go of it.

Lets see some links showing your claims to be true. Authoratative links not from some enviro greenie source.

Dude thinks the prestigious Forbes (est. 1917) and Scientific American (est. 1845) are environmental magazines. Clearly we have nothing further to discuss. Welcome to the Hydrogen Economy.

Right now most hydrogen is made from natural gas leaving a significant carbon footprint.

Old fossil fuel hardheads can choose to live in the past with their head in the sand but hydrogen is already here. Generated by cheap renewable energy, low cost since there is much curtailed solar energy.

Lets see some links showing your claims to be true. Authoratative links not from some enviro greenie source.

"On a mass basis, hydrogen has nearly three times the energy content of gasoline—120 MJ/kg for hydrogen versus 44 MJ/kg for gasoline. On a volume basis, however, the situation is reversed; liquid hydrogen has a density of 8 MJ/L whereas gasoline has a density of 32 MJ/L, as shown in the figure comparing energy densities of fuels based on lower heating values. Onboard hydrogen storage capacities of 5–13 kg hydrogen will be required to meet the driving range for the full range of light-duty vehicle platforms."
DOE

I'm sure that some Euro countries are running H2, but Europe is totally woke (meaning has taken leave of their senses) and just how far can you drive in Europe? Kohn to Dusseldorf is not Miami to Seattle. Mostly short local driving. Remember that Germany shut down their zero pollution nuke plants and had to start up a lot of filthy soft coal fossil plants to replace them.

As for citing LA as an authority, that's like quoting the village idiot. How are they going to move H2 from Utah to LA:

"Hydrogen embrittlement: Material engineers have contended with this issue for decades. If steel manufacturing processes aren't finely controlled, then the introduction of hydrogen atoms can make the steel more brittle, eventually risking ruptures and explosions if used to fabricate turbine blades or pipelines. Airplanes, helicopters, power plants, and pipelines have fallen out of the sky -- or been projected into it -- due to hydrogen embrittlement. The risk extends to merely transporting hydrogen through steel pipelines, which can absorb hydrogen over time.

On the one hand, the United States is home to over 3 million miles of natural gas pipelines used for gathering, transmission, and distribution. On the other hand, most transmission pipelines are made of steel, which creates safety risks stemming from hydrogen embrittlement. "

I'm not opposed to H2 use but I am aware of the problems, when engineers solve the problems then it may be practical. Right now it is just greenie theater.

Hydrogen fuel cell trucks are already on the road in Europe:

https://www.cnet.com/roadshow/news/hyundai-xcient-hydrogen-fuel-cell-trucks-europe-headed-to-america/

time2roll wrote:

RambleOnNW wrote:
Heavy trucks will eventually run on hydrogen. Hydrogen refuels like gas or diesel in a short amount of time. And the energy density of hydrogen per unit weight is many times that of lithium batteries.

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/energy-department-looks-to-boost-hydrogen-fuel-for-big-trucks/

The problem of the connector freezing up has yet to be solved. Back to back refueling is not the same as petrol.
Hydrogen at 10,000+ psi is a very difficult (expensive) material to handle. Current cost is about $15 / gallon equivalent. Good luck with that.

Plug Power customers have completed more than 33 million refuelings now consuming 40 tons of hydrogen per day. All false information above.

https://www.plugpower.com/

agesilaus wrote:

Heavy trucks will eventually run on hydrogen. Hydrogen refuels like gas or diesel in a short amount of time. And the energy density of hydrogen per unit weight is many times that of lithium batteries.

Very unlikely. Hydrogen is hard to store, it is very low density and you just cannot get much in a tank. There have been efforts to find some material which will store it at higher densities but if they have succeeded in producing a practical material I haven't heard about it. \

Hydrogen is also very difficult to ship because it will go right thru normal steel and as mentioned it is low density. There so far is no cheap way to produce Hydrogen either.

This is just greenie pie in the sky information

From what I gather it’s pricey too. But it’s hard to find good price comparisons. Lots of factors involved.

Heavy trucks will eventually run on hydrogen. Hydrogen refuels like gas or diesel in a short amount of time. And the energy density of hydrogen per unit weight is many times that of lithium batteries.

Very unlikely. Hydrogen is hard to store, it is very low density and you just cannot get much in a tank. There have been efforts to find some material which will store it at higher densities but if they have succeeded in producing a practical material I haven't heard about it. \

Hydrogen is also very difficult to ship because it will go right thru normal steel and as mentioned it is low density. There so far is no cheap way to produce Hydrogen either.

This is just greenie pie in the sky information

Old fossil fuel hardheads can choose to live in the past with their head in the sand but hydrogen is already here. Generated by cheap renewable energy, low cost since there is much curtailed solar energy.

LA is going to have a large hydrogen storage and generation facility in Utah, storing hydrogen in salt domes:

https://www.forbes.com/sites/kensilverstein/2020/04/08/if-green-hydrogen-can-fuel-los-angeles-it-will-really-be-the-city-of-dreams/

RambleOnNW wrote:
Heavy trucks will eventually run on hydrogen. Hydrogen refuels like gas or diesel in a short amount of time. And the energy density of hydrogen per unit weight is many times that of lithium batteries.

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/energy-department-looks-to-boost-hydrogen-fuel-for-big-trucks/

The problem of the connector freezing up has yet to be solved. Back to back refueling is not the same as petrol.
Hydrogen at 10,000+ psi is a very difficult (expensive) material to handle. Current cost is about $15 / gallon equivalent. Good luck with that.