Maybe a contracts question?

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Mr.Beebo wrote:
Not a legal thought, but just an observation. We have all had to shell out $ for repairs to a vehicle before and decided to trade or sell it before something else went wrong. 9k to repair wiring would seem to encompass the entire system, so for rats to have chewed thru it and caused 12k worth of damage doesn't make sense. Were you aware of any issues you didn't disclose?
Did you have any suspicions of more issues to come? It really doesn't matter either way; they did their walk thru and the paperwork is signed, and time is on your side vs the dealership.

Thank you. Other than replacing a gfi and hydraulic line a few months ago, no! Thank you all for your valuable input

Haven't heard a word from them

Not a legal thought, but just an observation. We have all had to shell out $ for repairs to a vehicle before and decided to trade or sell it before something else went wrong. 9k to repair wiring would seem to encompass the entire system, so for rats to have chewed thru it and caused 12k worth of damage doesn't make sense. Were you aware of any issues you didn't disclose?
Did you have any suspicions of more issues to come? It really doesn't matter either way; they did their walk thru and the paperwork is signed, and time is on your side vs the dealership.

I think we all know what the dealer's response would be if 10 days later, a customer was complaining about finding similar damage... It was used, you inspected it, it was sold as is, case closed......

Ten days later?! It probably happened sitting on their lot! If it was an issue, they would've seen it on their 3 hour lookover!

Sherry Mindel wrote:
The dispute is 10 days after they took our old coach and delivered the new one, they tell us rats ate the wire loom in the old traded in coach and want an additional $12,000 for repairs

From what I can tell, all vehicle disclosure laws in California only apply to those selling to consumers. That makes sense, dealers are expected to be knowledgeable and competent enough to protect their own interests.

They did an inspection, found no issues, and accepted the trade at an agreed value. If rats ate wires a day or 10 later, that's their problem. If their inspection didn't turn up an issue, that's also their problem. Since they did 2 inspections, the unit was in their possession the whole time, and only the latter found an issue, I suspect a court would take that as evidence that the damage occurred after they took possession.

I am not a lawyer. Even if someone who posts here is a lawyer, they're not your lawyer. Take all advice as worth what you paid for it.

It looks like CA law requires dealers to pay the collected fees within 20 days for a new vehicle, and 30 days for a used one. Regardless of what the dealer is currently saying, they may submit the paperwork on time, they may just be using that time to make an idle threat to try and get more money from you.

Myself, I'd first contact the DMV and ask about options if a dealer withholds the title/registration paperwork when you have signed purchase documents and made fully payment. They may have some method of getting clean title and registration in that case. You could also contact the district attorney's office where the dealer is located and explain the situation and ask if they consider that to be extortion or some other form of criminal fraud.

If the DMV or DA can't/won't help, time to get a contract law lawyer.

Sherry Mindel wrote:

Grit dog wrote:
If all of this is legit on your part and you have an executed sales/trade in contract then give them one chance to either process the title and license or give you the signed title or cert of origin signed over to you.
If they don't do either within a day, you can go argue with them or lawyer up.
Guessing some stout arguments are all itnwill take as they likely try to pull this same scam every chance they get.
Now if they point out a leagal "out" for themselves then you may have to lawyer up if they scammed you that bad.

Grit- all that I've posted is exact archive of how this deal has gone down. Today, we've had zero calls. Going forward, I will insist all communication from dealer be in writing as suggested by our attorney (I really don't want to have to pay yet another retainer for this issue as we are not in the wrong)

At the DMV today, the occupational licensing dept said they would bet all DMV paperwork from dealer to them is enroute and we should wait another few days to call DMV and confirm

Really REALLY appreciate everyone's input

I can appreciate that Sherry as well as the BS the dealer is ptt ing you through. Not doubting you in particular, but you know there's always 3 sides to the story.
That said, 99%of the time I have a hard time siding with a dealer as, in general, dealers have proven themselves to me to be at best a little slimy, at worse rip off artists.
Wish you the best possible outcome in this situation.
I'm in a business where almost everyone is trying to take advantage, get something for free, rip you off or at least get more than their share, so I'm very cautious about any dealings and can imagine it's even that more daunting if one appears vulnerable at all (elderly, as you said, creates an image of vulnerability so stick it to em!)

I have the owner right now trying to get me to build work for free, subcontractors looking for change orders that aren't a change of scope from what they bid and the best one yesterday.....need to quick order a couple grand in form lumber. As the new company doesn't have a purchasing dept it eats into my time as construction manager being a purchasing agent. I call the closest big lumber yard, used in the past, and place an order without getting multiple quotes from different vendors. This rat fook outfit tries charging me $35 a sheet more than the going rate for the plywood! Almost double the current market price!
I wasn't looking to pinch pennies and get low price. I wanted convienence but what I got was an extra half hour of work calling them back to tell them to fook off and placing a new order with a different lumber yard.
Rental outfit just charged me $100 to fill the tank on a returned truck. I know the deal, return it full or pay like $7 a gallon. This rep told me he was picking the truck and delivering it up north to another customer. I had the truck filled. His delivery location was about $100 in $7 a gallon fuel away from my location. He drove it up there, topped it off and tried passing off his transportation costs to a new client on me!
Hence my negativity that everyone is out to hose everyone else every chance they get.
I am forced to do the same, often, to get back what I missed and got gypped on the first time...

aguablanco wrote:
While I wouldn't contact a private attorney I would talk to the State's Attorney, immediately. This is, almost certainly, not the first time this dealer has tried to pull this trick. There should be consequences. The SA could ask for documentation on the alleged damage. If you are a senior citizen there are elder abuse laws that would have very serious consequences for the dealer. I would not let the dealer wiggle out of this unethical business practice.
RichH

Rich- excellent advice. I wrote them an email and stated chronologically every step in a concise matter and that we are just awaiting plates and title. That was three days ago, not a word since. The salesman also know there are two couples at our resort ready to order the same exact Coach

As for elder abuse, I addressed that in my email

Thanks, I will contact my SA on Friday

Happy Thanksgiving everyone

Grit dog wrote:
If all of this is legit on your part and you have an executed sales/trade in contract then give them one chance to either process the title and license or give you the signed title or cert of origin signed over to you.
If they don't do either within a day, you can go argue with them or lawyer up.
Guessing some stout arguments are all itnwill take as they likely try to pull this same scam every chance they get.
Now if they point out a leagal "out" for themselves then you may have to lawyer up if they scammed you that bad.

Grit- all that I've posted is exact archive of how this deal has gone down. Today, we've had zero calls. Going forward, I will insist all communication from dealer be in writing as suggested by our attorney (I really don't want to have to pay yet another retainer for this issue as we are not in the wrong)

At the DMV today, the occupational licensing dept said they would bet all DMV paperwork from dealer to them is enroute and we should wait another few days to call DMV and confirm

Really REALLY appreciate everyone's input

While I wouldn't contact a private attorney I would talk to the State's Attorney, immediately. This is, almost certainly, not the first time this dealer has tried to pull this trick. There should be consequences. The SA could ask for documentation on the alleged damage. If you are a senior citizen there are elder abuse laws that would have very serious consequences for the dealer. I would not let the dealer wiggle out of this unethical business practice.
RichH