Forum Discussion
62 Replies
toedtoes wrote:
BubbaChris wrote:
Not that much difference from RV parks which have rules that enforce some common courtesy. In fact these homes were on land so valuable that your neighbor's house was about 12 feet (total) from yours on each side - perhaps more snug than many commercial RV parks? So this rule was one of many to help keep things from getting uncivil in such close quarters.
I moved out of state 3 years ago to a much roomier place in one of the least regulated neighborhoods in our city. So zero complaints last summer about my TT spending it's non-camping time on our driveway.
I think the difference is that you are "renting" the space in an RV Park. That would be comparable to renting a house or an apartment - where you are subject to rules determined by the property owner. With HOAs, you own the property, but are subject to rules made by someone else.
The "someone else" is usually the property developer, and later your neighbors. One of the phrases used to legally describe the entity the HOA covers is "Common Interest Development" So it is a form of local government controlled by your fellow owners. For the HOA's I've lived in it was more difficult to establish new more-restrictive rules than it is for the city council (or other appropriate government entity) to enact a new law.
At the time I was willing to trade some restrictions on my behaviors because I knew the benefits were worth it. I was in the last one for 17 years and I'm still glad we lived there (even after spending time on the HOA Board of Directors). One of my goals in avoiding an HOA this time is to manage expenses as we hope to retire in this house. I initially was wary of the funkiness of our new area, but I've grown to appreciate the hidden charms that go with the variety around here.toedtoes wrote:
The article in full reads:
Homeowners associations suck! They pretty much suck everywhere with all of their stupid rules and regulations such as “all houses must be painted beige” and whatnot.
But they really, truly suck, especially if you happen to live in upstate New York where these poor Ford F-150 owners can’t even park in their own driveway!
Syracuse.com reports that the Kimry Moor Homeowners’ Association has filed a lawsuit to bar David and Arna Orlando of Manlius, New York from parking their 2014 black Ford F-150 in their driveway.
How crazy is that? The “ass-ociation” says only automobiles and passenger vehicles are allowed to be parked in the driveways in front of the homes. It’s ridiculous!
The case has been filed with the Onondaga County Supreme Court, which is a complete waste of time and taxpayer’s money.
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The article does NOT state that only "private, passenger-type, pleasure automobiles" are allowed.
In addition, while the HOA can make rules, they have to follow a process to do so. And they cannot randomly change the interpretation of an existing rule.
Do you see the part that says that "Syracuse.com reports..."? The Syracuse.com part is a link to the actual news article about it. Read it and you will see that it does say it...BubbaChris wrote:
Not that much difference from RV parks which have rules that enforce some common courtesy. In fact these homes were on land so valuable that your neighbor's house was about 12 feet (total) from yours on each side - perhaps more snug than many commercial RV parks? So this rule was one of many to help keep things from getting uncivil in such close quarters.
I moved out of state 3 years ago to a much roomier place in one of the least regulated neighborhoods in our city. So zero complaints last summer about my TT spending it's non-camping time on our driveway.
I think the difference is that you are "renting" the space in an RV Park. That would be comparable to renting a house or an apartment - where you are subject to rules determined by the property owner. With HOAs, you own the property, but are subject to rules made by someone else.jfkmk wrote:
To each their own, I guess. I couldn't imagine living in an HOA where others felt it was their business what I kept in my garage or how many parking spaces in my own driveway they feel I should keep free. If that works for you, that's great! But for me, I'd prefer others keep their nose out of my house. Cheers!
Not that much difference from RV parks which have rules that enforce some common courtesy. In fact these homes were on land so valuable that your neighbor's house was about 12 feet (total) from yours on each side - perhaps more snug than many commercial RV parks? So this rule was one of many to help keep things from getting uncivil in such close quarters.
I moved out of state 3 years ago to a much roomier place in one of the least regulated neighborhoods in our city. So zero complaints last summer about my TT spending it's non-camping time on our driveway.BubbaChris wrote:
jfkmk wrote:
BubbaChris wrote:
For the HOA's I've lived in, there was always a rule that specified the garage has to have at least some space to park cars. In this configuration it would require 1 car's worth of space to be open. So if both spaces were filled with other belongings, they the F150 owner would be in violation.
I have no idea of what the specifics are in this case.
Do the rules specify vehicles need to be in the garage during any time period or that you need to keep your garage clutter free? I'm flabbergasted the HOAs not only dictate what you do on the outside of your home, but have started to dictate what you do on the inside as well! Man, I really stand by my previous post with regards to HOAs!
Sorry for the delay. In my case the rules specified the garages were meant for your vehicles and your vehicles "should" be parked there but didn't absolutely require it.
However if you took away the ability to park the minimum required number of car(s)/truck(s) in your garage you were in violation. In that HOA we primarily had 3 car garages and you had to keep 2 spaces available for use.
I spent some time on that Board of Directors and we typically had other issues that were higher priority for our personal involvement (so the professional management company handled the letters on minor stuff like the parking). As others have mentioned it is not a fun job since so many people are good at rationalizing why they should not have to follow the restrictions as defined.
To each their own, I guess. I couldn't imagine living in an HOA where others felt it was their business what I kept in my garage or how many parking spaces in my own driveway they feel I should keep free. If that works for you, that's great! But for me, I'd prefer others keep their nose out of my house. Cheers!Dtank wrote:
Lynnmor wrote:
Does this really belong in America?
Really Sad
(Home) Buyer Beware!
Know what the CC&Rs for the community and/or the homeowner's assoc are
before signing on the dotted line.
Make sure you have (and keep) a copy - never know when you may need it.
If you have the above, and the rules are modified, "existing non-conforming" will usually win in court.
BTW - "HOAs" are *not* a bad thing. An HOA can be very beneificial.
Do you want the guy that owns a moving company parking one (or more) of his vans in his driveway - next to your home?..:(
Makes future sales tough.
Bottom line, "jfkmk" and others, I would purchase a home with a HOA.
Just depends on what the HOA does -and does not- cover...;)
.
Yes! Know what you are buying before you buy. Bought two homes in association neighborhoods, read cc&rs before ever making an offer.jfkmk wrote:
BubbaChris wrote:
For the HOA's I've lived in, there was always a rule that specified the garage has to have at least some space to park cars. In this configuration it would require 1 car's worth of space to be open. So if both spaces were filled with other belongings, they the F150 owner would be in violation.
I have no idea of what the specifics are in this case.
Do the rules specify vehicles need to be in the garage during any time period or that you need to keep your garage clutter free? I'm flabbergasted the HOAs not only dictate what you do on the outside of your home, but have started to dictate what you do on the inside as well! Man, I really stand by my previous post with regards to HOAs!
Sorry for the delay. In my case the rules specified the garages were meant for your vehicles and your vehicles "should" be parked there but didn't absolutely require it.
However if you took away the ability to park the minimum required number of car(s)/truck(s) in your garage you were in violation. In that HOA we primarily had 3 car garages and you had to keep 2 spaces available for use.
I spent some time on that Board of Directors and we typically had other issues that were higher priority for our personal involvement (so the professional management company handled the letters on minor stuff like the parking). As others have mentioned it is not a fun job since so many people are good at rationalizing why they should not have to follow the restrictions as defined.- 6 pages of comments. Having been on an HOA board and having been on both sides of HOA Rules disputes (both as the "party" and as counsel), what I'd offer is:
- Rules cut both ways: When a rule says "this is not allowed", it means only that "this" is not allowed, not "this plus what we think should be this"...oftentimes it takes time and expense to get to that point, but "rules" ultimately as as much inclusive as exclusive;
- Selective enforcement is the bugaboo that often sinks many a busybody HOA enforcement action;
- The "article" is incredibly short on facts; from the article, the only thing I'd read as even possibly a "fact" is that there is a lawsuit in Onondaga County Supreme Court;
- It is the HOA's obligation to provide the HOA rules in the resale cert or other documentation;....it is the buyer/potential owner's obligation to read and understand those rules and (IMNSHO) to clarify in a defensible way and vagueness or ambiguity in the rules.
- I prevailed in a non-litigated dispute at one point because I had a written (e-mail) response from the HOA stating that "Yes, that commercial vehicle in the storage yard belongs to Mr. X and it's been there for Y years." This HOA had a clear rule about no commercial vehicles in driveways but was silent on their presence in storage yards. Since I had that information prior to my purchase, I felt safe in being able to defend the use of the storage yard for my commercial vehicle if the HOA ever came after me...they did and I defended and the issue went away.
Bottom line as has been posted in the prior 6 pages: If you don't like HOA's, don't buy in an area with HOA's. If you prefer the benefits (and I see both sides of that argument), then just make sure you understand the rules. - One of the reasons I would never live in an H/O controlled house. I do what I want on my property.
- The article in full reads:
Homeowners associations suck! They pretty much suck everywhere with all of their stupid rules and regulations such as “all houses must be painted beige” and whatnot.
But they really, truly suck, especially if you happen to live in upstate New York where these poor Ford F-150 owners can’t even park in their own driveway!
Syracuse.com reports that the Kimry Moor Homeowners’ Association has filed a lawsuit to bar David and Arna Orlando of Manlius, New York from parking their 2014 black Ford F-150 in their driveway.
How crazy is that? The “ass-ociation” says only automobiles and passenger vehicles are allowed to be parked in the driveways in front of the homes. It’s ridiculous!
The case has been filed with the Onondaga County Supreme Court, which is a complete waste of time and taxpayer’s money.
---
The article does NOT state that only "private, passenger-type, pleasure automobiles" are allowed.
In addition, while the HOA can make rules, they have to follow a process to do so. And they cannot randomly change the interpretation of an existing rule.
