Why not put turbos on 2500 gas trucks

BenK wrote:
Pictures worth a 1,000 words... :B

Perhaps not using pictures of 10+ year old engines may be worth even more words..... The 6.0 went out of the Ford trucks in 2007. The Duramax and Cummins have also changed a lot in 10 years.

Pictures worth a 1,000 words... :B

Generally speaking...crank size makes a big difference...add metallurgy and production methods (science of the two). Stuff like offset bolt angles, how many bolts, fracture of mating surfaces, etc, etc

Add other stuff like...whether the crank is cast iron, cast steel...to forged...



connectingrodcomparison

Sure Diesel will give you better fuel economy - it has more energy per gallon. Around here it's considerably more expensive than gas.

I'd say the reason the hotshotters run Cummins is because when you're out in the middle of nowhere and it needs service you can pull into any truck stop and find a Cummins guy to fix it.

U-Haul probably runs the largest fleet of gas engines - mainly Ford V10 and GM big blocks. Has for a while. Many of those vehicles have considerable miles on them with lots of abuse. I'm sure they are not replacing engines left and right.

Diesels tend to run at low RPMs which probably contributes greatly to their life. Look at a turbo gas engine like the Ecoboost - while it will rev, it makes plenty of power down low - the RMPs are there for HP which most Diesels lack.

I'd love a good turbo gas engine in a bigger truck - there is no reason it can't be done with today's technology. My guess is it will face an uphill battle with the Diesel guys as well as the companies need to recoup their $$ on Diesel development.

burningman,

Issue is as noted. Many of us only drive 10-15k miles a year, the little additional cost in fuel, ie gas is not going to get us a payback in what I would call a reasonable amount of time, just in fuel cost savings. For me that is 2-3 years, maybe 4 max. Maybe over the life I keep the truck I might get a payback due to the generally speaking increased used cost of a diesel vs gas. But 10-20 years later and 200+K miles......Truck chassis is usually dead. Same reason I got an IDI 7.3 in my MDT, being as that motor is was a 100K mile throw away motor, vs the DT360 at the time, being a 500K mile motor, With a $5-7K addition....takes a long time to pay off that option. Only have 150K on original motor from 92. Yeah it is a bit used....but still runs!
I'm not driving 25-35K miles a year like I did, I paid off those diesels in 80-120K miles or 3-4 years in fuel cost savings. Will not pull it off today with $7-8K differences vs $2-3K back in the mid 90's......

You'll never get the fuel economy under a load that diesels will. ALL big trucks are diesels for a reason. Diesels generally outlast gas engines too.
For short term ownership, gas engines are more cost efficient.
A gas motor truck will pull all your stuff, a diesel will do it a LOT better, its up to you whether it's worth the price for twice the torque. That's why they offer both.
I wouldn't call the Cummins overrated. It's been around about 30 years providing extremely reliable power in tractors, school busses, medium duty trucks and pickups.
Look at the hotshot haulers. They almost all run Cummins trucks. Those and the old Ford 7.3 diesels have very good track records.
I've never seen one run a gas truck.

I own two 4x4 duallies, one gas, one diesel. I'm not on one team. This is just how it is.

mkirsch wrote:

Ford simply isn't confident enough in the EB engine to handle that kind of continuous work, and don't see enough of a benefit in designing a larger turbo gas engine to make it worthwhile.

It would be nice to have the option of getting the 3.5L EB in an F250 or F350, if you're going to use the truck for occasional towing only, but I'm sure Ford is afraid that people will order trucks in with EB's to do "real work" and be disappointed in the longevity of the engine.

Yet they are confident to put it in the Transit vans, which are subject to the same duty cycles of SD pickups - high loads, long periods of use, and maybe towing.

There's a lot of ignorance and whatnot in this thread.
From the people that complain about "turbos at 150k" and forget that Diesels run turbos too and don't get replaced that frequently. It's all in the DESIGN, which you can design for.

They also complain about a V6 forgetting that Big Rigs are I6's and even the much overrated Cummins is an I6....

I suspect the real reason is that it would tank Diesel sales. If I could get the benefits of Diesel (flat torque, no loss of power at high altitudes) with none of the negatives (expensive fuel and maintenance) why would I buy that expensive Diesel?

I own 2 Ecoboost 3.5's, one in a car and one in an F150. One with 118k and one with 82k. Both have been stellar powerplants and one tows a 9900 lb trailer just fine.

My next truck will be an F350 as we're wanting a 5th wheel as our next. If Ford put a Ecoboost 5.0 in there I'd buy that over a Diesel all day and twice on Sunday.

A modern turbo truck is not going to use any more fuel than a normally aspirated truck. If anything it will use slightly LESS fuel than an engine of the same displacement, but the engine wouldn't be the same displacement. It would be SMALLER just like the Ecoboost 3.5L is now vs. the 5.0L V8.

That was the whole point of the Ecoboost in the first place. Small efficient engine for moving the truck around empty, big horsepower and torque when you need it.

The reason that Ford hasn't put the 3.5L Ecoboost in the SD trucks yet is because of the way SD trucks are typically used. Your average everyday F150 is a commuter, grocery getter, take the kids to soccer practice. Typical "heavy" use is towing the travel trailer to the local campground a few times every summer with one or two longer trips. Ford SD trucks are meant to be WORK trucks, and while some end up being grocery getters, far more of them get loaded up with thousands of pounds of weight, hooked to heavy trailers, and/or saddled with snow plows and run like that 5-6 days a week.

Ford simply isn't confident enough in the EB engine to handle that kind of continuous work, and don't see enough of a benefit in designing a larger turbo gas engine to make it worthwhile.

It would be nice to have the option of getting the 3.5L EB in an F250 or F350, if you're going to use the truck for occasional towing only, but I'm sure Ford is afraid that people will order trucks in with EB's to do "real work" and be disappointed in the longevity of the engine.

While I still agree with myself....lol, with the phobia around diesel emissions and the $8-9k up charge and those that still want a gasser, I bet one of the big 3 could capitalize on a turbo or blown V8 HD pickup for a little while at least while gas is cheap and economy is good.
Sort of surprised Dodge hasn't done it yet. They have all the parts sitting there in a bin already ala Hellcat. Would be some great marketing. Diesel killer Ram 2500 supercharged 6.4 Hemi ftw! Mild pump gas boost with mid 5s for hp and tq.

I have many direct automotive design and engineering related contacts working for all the big names (and large vendors of the big names) and they either don't know anything except the project they are currently on or they cannot say a word about it. They are practically sworn to keep their mouth shut.

I can tell you as a matter of fact though...Automotive Engineers do not set
(have the final word) for any intervals found in our manuals.

And we'll never know what any given OEM considers to be a typical life cycle of any given major component or entire vehicle.

In short, an OEM will NEVER tell owners a specific time or mileage when to replace a turbo! That's sales and marketing suicide.

mich800 wrote:

atwowheelguy wrote:

intheburbs wrote:
My only concern with the 3.5EB would be durability. Ford recommends replacing the turbos at 150k miles. I'm guessing that's not a cheap job. I drive my trucks until they fall apart. Won't be getting an EB any time soon.

Forced induction puts more stresses on driveline components. Why do you think it took so long for Jeep to come out with the AWD Trackhawk, with the Hellcat motor? They were having durability issues with the AWD system handling a 700-hp motor. I believe in the end, the engine is slightly detuned to 650 hp.

I love my hotrod all-aluminum 6.2 Sierra Denali, but for towing, I'll take my cast-iron block 6.0. She loves to rev, and does fine for me. 170k miles and she still purrs like a kitten and uses no oil.

I can't find that turbo replacement recommendation anywhere in the scheduled maintenance section of my owner's manual. I'm at 112,000 miles now and I need that information. Give us a link to that documentation somewhere.

Because there is none.

I read that and called my BIL who is a design engineer at Ford in Dearborn and asked him.. He said in his typical engineer speak.... ah, don't think so.:R