Worse this year?

Naio: said::"It's like a sick joke, telling people they have to put their tent on a gravel pad."

Kinda agree BUT:

I did not design the park. I did not build it. I did not even write the rules.

Most importantly, I did not ignore the pictures of each site and descriptions of the site before making a reservation and coming here. The camper has to take at least some responsibility for their action or lack of same.

Funny though, we had over 20 sites this past weekend with tents on the gravel pads with no other complaints or problems. We have tents camp here all the time. I wonder how they do it???

My wife and I have been Park Attendant Contractors for the past three years, at a very busy boat launch park for the COE. I must also say the public has been much worse this year. Many more feel the rules do not apply in their particular case. When confronted they want to get in your face. After serving 29 years in the military they do not get far with that attitude. The park is for all to enjoy some have been forced to leave so the majority can have that enjoyment. I will explain the issue once, maybe twice and if they still want to argue or can't understand I tell I can call someone with more authority or they can leave. Most times they will comply but not be pleased they did not get their way.

Dog Folks wrote:

rekoj71 wrote:
I'm not sure if it is in direct relation to, but I and some other publications have noticed an increase in RV activity this year, including camping. I am finding more and more campgrounds full this year and it may have to do with the economy supposedly getting better and more people buying RV's. Remember though that this will bring in a new set of campers to the campgrounds, and not just those of us who have been around for awhile. Several of those will obviously be in a younger generation, and also maybe not know the etiquette that we take for granted.

Well, said and maybe a factor. I do know that the park is much busier this year, more often 100% full.

Naio said: "Do you tell the campers that when they complain?"

Yes I do. I start with: "I'm sorry, but I have to ask you to move the tent into the campsite. I know it is not as comfortable......"
I have even loaned out some of my personal tarps to minimize the "sharpness" of the rock.

I am starting to think it is a combination of things; 1. I am getting old. NO denying that. 2. The campground is much much busier 3. The demographics are changing.

I appreciate all the ideas.

Are there other campgrounds in your area (forest service ones, for example) that are more oriented towards tent campers? It might help to suggest one. Of course you'd have to be careful with your phrasing so people would not think you were asking them to leave!

It's like a sick joke, telling people they have to put their tent on a gravel pad. Tent campgrounds don't have designated areas for the tents, but you can often tell the places that people most commonly set them up -- not only are they level, but every single rock has been removed.

westernrvparkowner wrote:
I think it may have something to do with you have more familiarity with the park and it's operations after 4 years and you are just more in tune with what is going on. You probably have also improved the park, taken care of many other issues and what is left stands out. Kind of like if you are running from a hungry bear, that pebble in your shoe just isn't as annoying as it is when you are walking to the dessert bar at your local Golden Corral. When the little annoyances and aggravations are the only issues you have to deal with, you have achieved success.

Another valid point. Thank you.

"We live in a decaying age. Our youth spend their time in taverns and are
disrespectful to their elders.

-Anonymous graffiti, circa 1800 B.C, found in an internal
passageway of a pyramid.


"Where did you go?"
"I did not go anywhere."
"If you did not go anywhere, why do you idle about? Go to school."

-Sumerian, c. 1700 BC

Slamnslash wrote:
what I see more is lack of concern for others as a whole. There was a thread here a while back about allowing the use of your campers toilet while in a traffic jam. 90% of the replied was NO and Hell no's. I think the problem is both ways.

We moved into our trailer because campgrounds are tailored to be used by trailer campers. And there is some snobbery with the trailer users.

Like I said, it goes both ways. I am a gen x and have to deal with my parents as well as the millennials as well. Both are screwed up but it is our burden to bear.

I agree.

rekoj71 wrote:
I'm not sure if it is in direct relation to, but I and some other publications have noticed an increase in RV activity this year, including camping. I am finding more and more campgrounds full this year and it may have to do with the economy supposedly getting better and more people buying RV's. Remember though that this will bring in a new set of campers to the campgrounds, and not just those of us who have been around for awhile. Several of those will obviously be in a younger generation, and also maybe not know the etiquette that we take for granted.

Well, said and maybe a factor. I do know that the park is much busier this year, more often 100% full.

Naio said: "Do you tell the campers that when they complain?"

Yes I do. I start with: "I'm sorry, but I have to ask you to move the tent into the campsite. I know it is not as comfortable......"
I have even loaned out some of my personal tarps to minimize the "sharpness" of the rock.

I am starting to think it is a combination of things; 1. I am getting old. NO denying that. 2. The campground is much much busier 3. The demographics are changing.

I appreciate all the ideas.

3oaks wrote:

Fresno Tundra Driver wrote:
What you are seeing is a overall general decay with civility in society, especially with the under 30 crowd. Maybe its partly due to the internet, maybe it has something to do with the "everyone gets a trophy" generation growing up and thinking they are all extraordinary. Whatever it is, its the same thing all the LEO's and teachers are seeing. Everybody wants to argue with authority.

I believe you nailed the cause and most of the other replies describe the results. Unfortunately, what we are witnessing is the decline on America.

I am more in agreement with this statement although feel several on here all have valid points such as age and tolerance levels.

My observation we have shifted to a civilization that is rooting itself on entitlement instead of hard work. I do not think it is limited to the generations below 30, although it could be linked to the raising of those generations that started it. But like most things it is growing like a cancer in society today. Way to many conversations on how to beat the systems and a huge cloud around what is right and wrong, only time it seems to be wrong is if people cannot use the theory and take advanage of it as well to do what is best for them.

To the OP I think you are seeing a combination of your time doing the job, the fact that more people are camping which generates more issues and the mentality of society today influencing what is right and wrong.

Just my 2 cents...cause I'm entitled to it! :p

Let me throw this in there. While I agree its a millennial thing we were hardcore primitive campers until recently. We would camp five to ten days in a tent and have been doing so for years.
Our family has grown to 5 now, with that my kelty quatro was outgrown, then to a four season rei 6 something was outgrown. Now we went to a ten person Coleman that is huge. All of the sights around here are doing the same thing and putting in "pads" or like your place has "borders." Those things are a pain in the ass. The first problem is the retard who installed them. Poor grading, irregular shapes and layout, then fill with razor rock.
The sight is now tailored to camper campers and not tents. The prime sites get picked and people like us get stuck trying to fit a ten foot tent into an 8 foot pad.
Not justifying poor behavior but what I see more is lack of concern for others as a whole. There was a thread here a while back about allowing the use of your campers toilet while in a traffic jam. 90% of the replied was NO and Hell no's. I think the problem is both ways.

We moved into our trailer because campgrounds are tailored to be used by trailer campers. And there is some snobbery with the trailer users.

Like I said, it goes both ways. I am a gen x and have to deal with my parents as well as the millennials as well. Both are screwed up but it is our burden to bare.

Dog Folks wrote:
Worked with the public my entire life. Most of it in my own businesses.

Certainly NOT my first encounter of this type in the past 9 years, but it just seems that there are a lot more of them this year.

Might be time to hang it up and retire. Your confrontations described aren't worth it IMO. After campers have been warned once, then call security or the County Sheriff's Dept. Every COE park I stay in have stringent enforcement, and sometimes armed watchman presence at the entry points overnight in their .Gov issue pick up.

Dog Folks wrote:

Naio wrote:
Where would a person set up a tent other than on grass?

I am sorry you are dealing with so much hassle. I think it's unlikely that the whole world has become grouchier this year :). Maybe your park has become popular with a different crowd?

All equipment must be set up on the site, which is delineated by 12x12 beams. Unfortunately, the site is gravel and not real tent "friendly."

coolmom42 wrote:


On a tent pad. Tent sites usually have a level spot or area for that purpose. Often they have a clear border.

Thanks for clarifying. In nearly 50 years of tent camping (before I got the van), I have never seen a campground where the sites had designated areas for tents, and you could not just put your tent anywhere you wanted on your site. Maybe this is regional difference?

I realise, of course, that you are not the one who makes the rules :). And I appreciate that you acknowledge that the sites are uncomfortable places to sleep. Do you tell the campers that when they complain? It might help. People like knowing their concerns have been heard and empathised with, even if you can't change the policy.