free radical wrote:Timmo! wrote:
Which evil is more acceptable?
Oil spills or forest fires attributed to electrical powerlines?
Fyi
80% of forest fires are started by humans. The rest by lightning.
Powerlines are nowhere near as dangerous.
Reisender wrote:noteven wrote:
If you do the back of napkin calculation replacing gasoline use per day in the USA with electric vehicles generating capacity will have to almost double.
That doesn’t include diesel fuel for trucks, machines, and railways.
The power grid now is over 50% fossil fueled so that will need to be fixed as well.
Should be doable easy enough.
I don't know. BC Hydro started working on this back in 2015 and have different calculations than yours. We are an EV only household. Typically 16000 km per year. Our power bill is more affected by air conditioning use than EV use. Our typical commute use is under 8 KW per day which is probably typical for many, at least around here. We are also a non solar house. Those with solar around us pretty much generate all the power they need themselves on an annual basis including charging their cars, heating their homes etc.
Lots of variables. No simple answers but rather an aggregate of many.
Here is a pub BC hydro put out back in 2016. There is other interesting info on their website. Tons of new EV fast chargers in this province from about half a dozen principal players like BC Hydro, Tesla, Petro Canada, Shell, Electrify Canada, FLO etc etc. The grid will adapt and change as needed. Its a thirty year transition.
MEXICOWANDERER wrote:
It's Delta T temperatures that count.
72°F to freezing is 40
Drop it to 0°F is 70
Again to -20°F and it's 90°F
And family size is critical for hot water heating, and keeping bedrooms at 70°F during the day not 45°F
But thank you for your example.
MEXICOWANDERER wrote:
Electricity versus petroleum includes more than motor vehicles. There are so few examples of all electric homes outside California and perhaps Texas and Florida that obtaining sample data is frustrating.
Do *any* of you know what it takes to HEAT a 2,000 sq foot home when the Delta T is one hundred degrees? People scream in agony when they receive a bill for cooling a home with 30 degrees Delta T. Drop it to 60T or 40T
Add an electric stove, kitchen accessories, fast recovery 50 gallon hot water heater, and presto zingo, you are looking at eight to ten times the power consumption as a motor vehicle.
The government is going to chop carbon emissions by the old classic way. Tax it.
I live in a country that allows the 1st 75 kWh inexpensively. 76 to 150 kWh is double the price 151 to 300 kWh triple that. But wait there's more DATA ALTO CONSUMO allows for "X" total kWh to be consumed in a two-month period. Then the cost triples AGAIN and all lower tiers are eliminated for the next six months to a year. Fifty cents, US per kWh.
Can't be done! Won't be done?
The federal annual mileage tax proposal is a myth. So are Pennsylvania Turnpike Style toll booths and automatic chip readers for cars.
Nahhhhhhhh, they'll NEVER tax out of state purchases...
Unless you are a credentialed electrical engineer that worked with power generation and transmission projections, be very careful about your theories.
Start with this ---
Pencil up a work sheet with 150,000 BTU electric heat, a six burner stove, 50 gallon water heater---
Forget about the car. What size electrical service does an all electric house consume.
Hint: In 1977 The Summit, an all electric, new, luxury subdivision in Lake Tahoe had a revolt by new owners. Their bills were averaging $700 month
To control consumption during the 1972-1974 gasoline shortage, they simply rationed gasoline. Don't be foolish and start believing the USA will not go the way of its southern neighbor and price tier what they consider excessive consumption.
New construction will utilize underground distribution construction, with conductor size amplified 33%. Steel cored aluminum power lines will exceed doubled 1000 MCM cable. The price of aluminum will blast off like copper did.
My crystal ball is becoming clearer. Wait for the day, a $50 or $100 excise tax is passed for LPG and natural gas water heater sales.
Not green, I'll have to settle for a mild TAN down here. Before you show outrage, my TOTAL energy averages 88 kWh monthly. And ten dollars per month in gasoline at $4.00 gallon.
You're champing at the bit, but I'll blow your arguments first, all electric houses are new construction presently in California. But if you're young, brand-new slip-in electric heater replacements will appear. Electricians will be hired, and petroleum energy price increases will encourage you to not delay.
I'm fortunate to have a single-digit years lifespan ahead. It will spare me from hearing all the weeping.
