Adding VAs Gen Running Things Question

Gdetrailer, you missed the part where I had a Honda 3000 for the last 15 years, and a 5er where the Honda went in the truck, and I was charging the 5er batts with 156 amps worth of chargers. (which I can't all use now)

Now we have the Class C, just as many AH in the battery bank, but no place to carry the Honda 3000. Just did a year so far with no gen at all, and got by. But there are a few scenarios where we need a gen.

Got this little guy on sale, and it is borderline for running the 75 amper (forget the 100 amper plus the 55 amper at once!)

So I have found out I can just get away with running the 75 amper but need to limit its voltage to about 14.4 instead of the usual higher amount.

That's all I need to know. Good to go now. You and the other guys have helped with your comments. Thanks for that. But I don't need to get all scientific.

Shortcut answer...

NUMBER ONE



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NUMBER THREE

Charge with your Budda-Master All-Seeing All-Knowing converter until it yawns and says "That's All Folks!". Then fire the little gen and Megawatt until it runs out of fuel. I get a few hours of use out of a QUART AND A HALF OF FUEL.

As neat as the inverters are they are no match for this pair in relationship to the load. If the inverter perverter load is 30 amps or less there is no way in hell a 2,000 watt inverter connected to a Striggs and Bratton can function at less than 400% of the fuel of this duo. Remember, the efficiency is not constant at 70% state of charge fuel waste of the inverter is incredible even throttled back by the ECU.

BFL13 wrote:
I am not pretending to be in a Lab. It would be interesting to see all this on a scope, but I don't need to for what I am trying to find out. (And did thanks to the help from everybody on here for what to look for)

IMO the Kill-A-Watt is doing a good job for me, where I am seeing consistent results even if those results are not calibrated exactly.

EG, see the three sets of results in the thread about converter loading during Bulk. The "internal consistency" is clear.

I found it to be useful to have the Kill-A-Watt at the generator end and the Trimetric on the battery end to get the input numbers to go with the output numbers. Doesn't matter if they are not perfectly accurate in absolute terms. Just consistent and "close enough"

BUT, you ARE attempting to do "lab work" and get "lab results" in order to figure out as to why your setup is not working as expected.

You may be getting "consistent results" but are they when you end up with a discrepancy that you are not able to answer or explain?

I am basically trying to get you to understand that in the world of AC it is often difficult to get totally 100% results with zero discrepancies and it IS OK to accept and move on as long as you get good enough results..

This may mean instead of getting your wanted 75A charging into the batteries with your current gen and settle for say 70A or 72A instead.. The time difference between 75A and say 70A is not going to be the end of the world and take what, an extra 10-15 minutes of charging time?

It IS about "compromising", you took a chance on a 2200W inverter gen, it isn't performing quite up to spec with your converter and you are trying to figure out why it doesn't with a $25 meter..

Just not sure what you expected.

The gen, the meter and/or your converter all could be at fault or one or two of the items may be at fault, you may never know unless you eliminate at least two of these variables.

Your efforts are valiant but the results will continue to fall short unless you remove/eliminate as many of the variables as possible..

I guess I am having difficulty understanding the fascination with the 2200W inverter gen, personally I dumped my old 2000W old school gen and use my 4000W old school gen. The 2000W gen was barely able to handle a PD9160 with Charge Wizard..

I suspect the HF 3500 Inverter gen would be able to power right through that 75A converter load and never break a sweat..

I don't think the 2200W inverter gen you have has quite enough headroom to deal with the non linear load it is giving the generator..

Goodness! Just need to figure out the best ploy for a four-day off grid in the woods in the winter with no solar. (See pic in my profile)

Using maybe 200AH a day out of 400AH at 5C (450 at 25C)--

A. drive around to where there is some solar, plus get in some alternator charging (worked last year ok)

B. add two more batteries. Can do BTDT too. Does it if you are three days instead of four and cut back on 12v use (stove top instead of MW or kettle eg).

C. use the little gen to get some AH back as required. Plus A and B. Not tried that yet.

D. except if you have an extra vehicle along, so the Class C stays in the woods the whole time--no sun and no alternator (unless you want to idle for an hour or two) BTDT- big difference, almost like with the 5er- three days used gen one day for three hours.

E. four days straight in the woods-- how much gas for the gen? Don't know that one yet.

F. Campground says 2 hours for gen 9-11am and 6-8pm (dark out 6-8, nuts to that)

G. 50-80 gets the 75 amps for that two hour gen time (ok 50 -73) but red light flashing. What about a 70-90 every day? No red light? Waste of gen time? What if you want to go off somewhere in the morning, and not be stuck battery charging with the gen on?

So I did the posted backyard tests with the gen, and am able to figure out what to do "depending". Got that from using the Kill-A-Watt and Trimetric, plus some real life. Didn't need a scope. Not in line for a Nobel Prize in RV electronics. Just want to go camping and get back alive. :)

So far the record is in September this year, 8 days off grid with some solar, no gen using the 450AH only, got home at 40% SOC. Perfect! Can't do that in the winter though--which is why the little gen, just in case.

I would not pay the regular $800 for that, ever. It was on sale for $549 so well worth that. Turns out I really like this little guy. It is not a Honda, but it is very nice and not too loud. Actually the more I use it the more I like it. :)

With the comments about the kill-a-watt's sample rate being too low, will somebody please tell me what it is? I'm surprised to hear that it doesn't have an onboard CPU. Just for scanning the buttons and multiplexing the display, a microprocessor is the way to go for minimum cost.

tektronix PA1000 power quality analyzer $3200
kilo watt: $25

think that answers the question. Kilowatt is a good qualitative tool, good for troubleshooting, giving reasonable info to help.

want to troubleshoot a problem: $25

want traceable accurate verifiable results, that's another $3K

do you need that? likely not.

I could have easy access to the PA1000 if I wanted it. But in reality for what I need for analyzing power issues I have the Kilowatt does what I need.

MEXICOWANDERER wrote:
Horse stalls
Angle too steep, mud or sand too deep. 400 lb rider.

Biological Circuit Breaker Trips
Rearing, Bucking, biting

Prime Mover faulty
Thrown tread (horse shoe), Ill, ribs showing, near end of expected cycle life.

Suggestions
Clydesdale.

everybody
wants Clydesdale strength
in pony size
and have it eat like a Chihuahua

Having attended many seminars given by Fuke years ago, I can say I was impressed by how complicated power analysis was. I have forgotten most of what I learned.

One other thing that was eluded to is most electronic equipment has an input circuit to change AC to DC. These circuits draw current only at the peaks of the sine wave. I think it was Salvo that posted some scope pictures of the input current for some converters years ago. This current can not be easily defined in terms of VA. Trying to just add these numbers together will not get you a reasonable answer. It is very complicated. A kilowatt may or may not be able to measure this type of current depending on many factors.

Horse stalls
Angle too steep, mud or sand too deep. 400 lb rider.

Biological Circuit Breaker Trips
Rearing, Bucking, biting

Prime Mover faulty
Thrown tread (horse shoe), Ill, ribs showing, near end of expected cycle life.

Suggestions
Clydesdale.

Rather than just make noise, I can offer some assistance in learning. The book below is a superb introduction to the subject of Quality Power Analysis which is the only pathway to understanding apparent quandaries encountered in power analysis.

https://www.ecmweb.com/power-quality/power-quality-measurement-and-analysis-basics