I have a Xantrex ProWatt 1000 installed in my trailer......4g wire less than 18" directly wired to the two 12v, group 31AMG batteries wired in parallel ....250a Circuit breaker between the batteries and the inverterThe "house" main wire is 4g to the circuit breaker / charger panel in the trailer with a 30a circuit breaker at the battery....the run is about 12'I just bought a Keurig K130 Hotel/Commercial version coffee brewer. I went this route because this unit only draws 700 watts as opposed to all the other Keurig machines that draw up to 1500 watts. Many hotels have insufficient wiring in the rooms so this unit is designed just for them.So....With trailer disconnected from "shore power"....running just on batteries with 280w solar panels.....when I turn on the coffee machine, drawing AC current through a "Kill-A-Watt" it shows I am using 5.6 amps......But my "TriMetric" battery monitor is showing a drain of -45 AMPS!!! In fact, at start up it goes as high as -52 AMPS.........AND..It is a sunny day and the solar panels are outputting 7 AMPS so those numbers are really -52 and -59 AMPS......In fact, during one test I tripped the 30a "house" circuit breaker...............Very strange since the Xantrex is not drawing current through this circuit at all. It is directly wired to the two batteries.I can't figure it out.....Why would the house breaker trip? The only connection between the Xantrex and the house wiring is both are attached to the "+" terminal on the battery and both "-" are connected to the TriMetric's shunt. Any ideas?

The battery monitor amperage is fine.. 12vdc draws will be about 10x your 120vac amps. 7a from those panels is anemic. Is the sun angle large?I don't have a clue why the 30a house breaker is flipping - is there a big load you're not aware of.. like the converter?

Your wiring is apparently not actually what you think it is. I'd double-check the connections to the inverter and at the circuit breakers as what you describe should not be happening. (I'm assuming the two breakers are both on the positive leads and not the ground leads. If they're on the ground side, then it's nearly inevitable that there would be cross-paths between the two systems, among other difficulties.)Not that it matters for your situation, but why only a 30A breaker for the house circuits when the wire to the (assumed) house distribution panel is 4 gauge? I guess if you never exceed 30A it's a moot question, but I'd think 50A or more would be handier.You do have your inverter connected through the tri-metric shunt, so it would show the current flowing through the inverter. Somewhere around 55A on the 12V side is just about what one would expect for your 5.6A 120VAC load. There's nothing strange going on there. (And I think you do want the inverter power to be measured by the tri-metric so it can give reasonable readings for your battery states.)

Keurig connected 24/7. Used twice a day 2 cups each time.Additional monthly kWh? Ooooooo 98 kWh both on the mains meter and a kill-A-WattUmmmmmmm Baby.......some device that w-a-s.Connect it to a Kill-A-Watt and become really really aware.

Is just the Keurig plugged into the inverter? Or the main RV cord?Otherwise no exclamation needed as those are very normal readings. I think your 250 amp fuse is a bit large... did the manual call for that and #4 wire?

MEXICOWANDERER wrote:Keurig connected 24/7. Used twice a day 2 cups each time.I use the auto-off function at home. Also has a manual switch.

Electrical Help Needed...TriMetric / Xantrex / Coffee

42 Replies

MrWizard
Moderator
May 24, 2016
pianotuna wrote:
My induction NuWave unit draws variable wattage. When it is first turned on it draws the maximum wattage--even if set to low. Once it reaches the set point temperature it cycles quite rapidly (too fast for a kill-a-watt meter) through various wattages.

You may find that a 1500 watt inverter might not be big enough to handle the induction cooker.

sounds like these work by using a switching circuit
timing the off on cycle to maintain the power setting/heat level

you might find that the switching cycle just changes cycle time to more often , when presented with lower input power

even though it is an inductive load, it does NOT have the LRA of an A/C unit
MrWizard
Moderator
May 24, 2016
pianotuna wrote:
I can tell you that the NuWave 1300 watt will boil water faster than a 3000 watt traditional stove top burner.

3000w are you talking electric range in the stick and brick
3000w would 26 amps at 120v

LP burners are rated BTU, not sure what RV burners are rated, maybe around 6000btu

6000btuHr = 1758watHr

1300w = 4435 btu

800w = 2729 btu
Calkidd
Explorer
May 24, 2016
MEXICOWANDERER wrote:

http://www.agrisupply.com/carolina-cooker-single-burner-cast-iron-stove/p/56913/

This post got me curious about just how long it takes to boil water. This burner will take 22 oz of 60F water to boiling in 57 seconds. 15,000 BTU will do that :)

On a range top, 5 qts of water takes 23 minutes to boil (covered). With this burner the water is boiling in 7 minutes. I heated an 14 quart pressure cooker with pot roast ingredients in 6 and a half minutes.

But most importantly, I have French Press coffee in my genuine "Wal-Mart Bubba" cup in under two and a half minutes.

No batteries required

The Keurig is not inferior - it is merely, uh, different. That, and what (35) different types of "coffee"?
But this is not what the OP is discussing. Yay for you, you can boil water faster than anyone on the forum.

Please resume normal programming.
MEXICOWANDERER
Explorer
May 23, 2016
MEXICOWANDERER wrote:
westend, I certainly was not trying to "sway" the OP. But even a pure resistance of nichrome seems to incur an inrush. My exotic habit of disassembling a subject allows me to weigh all factors then come up with a plethora of permutations.

To set me engine back on the rails, the OP needs to actually MEASURE the voltage at the inverter studs when the Keurig is started. If the voltage remains above threshold value then the inverter becomes suspect ONLY WHEN AFTER the circuit breaker fasteners are examined and re-tightened.

Breakers are not eternal. After a few years the bi-metallic elements become annealed especially if they have carried a lot of current. Then there was my Mexico odyssey of a brand new box of 12 SIEMENS breakers that tripped at 13-amperes at 122 volts after 40-95 seconds of 13 ampere operation.

If when troubleshooting a troubleshooter relies on ASSumption then umption can be omitted.

Correctly administered tests using instrumentation will eliminate guesswork 100% of the time.

Hee hee

Paul Newman's, Blend and Dunkin' Donuts, blend are utterly safe and secure around me :)

BTW, that burner image is for a 15,000 BTU eleven dollar unit.

I may be the only person to have ever used COWBOY COFFEE preparation to make a kettle of JAMAICAN BLUE MOUNTAIN COFFEE at Dick's Lake, Desolation Wilderness CA. in 1977. Gawd it was gooooooood!
MEXICOWANDERER
Explorer
May 23, 2016
westend, I certainly was not trying to "sway" the OP. But even a pure resistance of nichrome seems to incur an inrush. My exotic habit of disassembling a subject allows me to weigh all factors then come up with a plethora of permutations.

To set me engine back on the rails, the OP needs to actually MEASURE the voltage at the inverter studs when the Keurig is started. If the voltage remains above threshold value then the inverter becomes suspect ONLY WHEN AFTER the circuit breaker fasteners are examined and re-tightened.

Breakers are not eternal. After a few years the bi-metallic elements become annealed especially if they have carried a lot of current. Then there was my Mexico odyssey of a brand new box of 12 SIEMENS breakers that tripped at 13-amperes at 122 volts after 40-95 seconds of 13 ampere operation.

If when troubleshooting a troubleshooter relies on ASSumption then umption can be omitted.

Correctly administered tests using instrumentation will eliminate guesswork 100% of the time.

Hee hee

Paul Newman's, Blend and Dunkin' Donuts, blend are utterly safe and secure around me :)
brulaz
Explorer
May 23, 2016
pianotuna wrote:
My induction NuWave unit draws variable wattage. When it is first turned on it draws the maximum wattage--even if set to low. Once it reaches the set point temperature it cycles quite rapidly (too fast for a kill-a-watt meter) through various wattages.

You may find that a 1500 watt inverter might not be big enough to handle the induction cooker.

oh-oh. Guess we'll find out ...
pianotuna
Nomad III
May 23, 2016
I can tell you that the NuWave 1300 watt will boil water faster than a 3000 watt traditional stove top burner.
pianotuna
Nomad III
May 23, 2016
My induction NuWave unit draws variable wattage. When it is first turned on it draws the maximum wattage--even if set to low. Once it reaches the set point temperature it cycles quite rapidly (too fast for a kill-a-watt meter) through various wattages.

You may find that a 1500 watt inverter might not be big enough to handle the induction cooker.
brulaz
Explorer
May 23, 2016
DrewE wrote:
brulaz wrote:

It will be interesting to see whether this induction hot plate on the 800W setting can heat 1.7L of water faster than the propane burner. Of course on shore power we can bump it up to 1500W.

800W is equivalent to 2700 BTU/hr (in an energy sense). The propane burner will almost certainly be quicker, even taking into account the less efficient heat transfer. (RV stove burners typically are around 6500 to 10,000 BUT/hr.)

Thanks for that.

Anecdotally have heard that 1500W Induction is faster at heating water than a typical gas range burner. If true, the stove burner must be very inefficient given the numbers above. Which is another reason we're interested in induction, particularly in the summer when boondocking without A/C.

When it's colder, might revert to propane, also as there's usually less sun then so harder to keep the batteries up.
DrewE
Explorer II
May 22, 2016
brulaz wrote:

It will be interesting to see whether this induction hot plate on the 800W setting can heat 1.7L of water faster than the propane burner. Of course on shore power we can bump it up to 1500W.

800W is equivalent to 2700 BTU/hr (in an energy sense). The propane burner will almost certainly be quicker, even taking into account the less efficient heat transfer. (RV stove burners typically are around 6500 to 10,000 BUT/hr.)