Hi,This is a test of a cold soaked RV, ambient temperature -31 C (-23.8 f) The test started at 2:00 but I had difficulty getting the cords "run". I'm plugged into one 30 amp and two 15 amp outlets. The inside of the RV started at -21 c (-5.8 f)--a testiment to solar gain--through the front window. I am running between 4500 and 5500 watts of electric heat, or 15354 to 18766 btu's.The bedroom area is closed off by a sliding fabric door, with about 2300 watts of electric heat, or 7847 btu's. (This number is NOT in addition to the total above.)The unit is a 2004 28'5" class C with many cold weather modifications.The date is 2013 12 07 and the location is: 50.448487,-104.50848inside rv; bed room; ambient temperature; time-20. C (-4 f); -20 C (-4 f);;;;;; -31 C (-23.8 f); 15:005.70 C (42.3 f); no data;;;;;;;;;;-26 C (-14.8 f); 17:007.70 C (45.9 f); 14 C (57.2 f) ;-26 C (-14.8 f); 18:00 11.2 C (52.2 f); 16 C (60.8 f); -26 C (-14.8 f); 19:00 {door open from 18:00 to 19:00}10.3 C (50.6 f); 23 C (73.4 f) ; -26 C (-14.8 f); 20:00 {door closed}12.4 C (54.4 f); 24 C (75.2 f); -26.6 C (-15.8 f); 21:0013.6 C (56.5 F); 25 c (77 f);;;; -26.8 C (-16.2 f); 22:00 {cracking door open}15.1 C (59.2 F); 23 C (73.4 f); -26 C (-14.8 f);; 23:00 {door still open}15.6 C (60.1 f); 22 C (71.6 f); -25.5 C (-13.9 f); 24:00 {door fully open}time to sleep

'cause I was curious, I did some math. Basic rate for electricity is apparently 11.13 cents per KWH where you are, you used roughly 70 Kw in 9 hours, for about $8. The 24 hour equivalent would be about $21. If you did that for a month that would be $640. 5 heating months, $3200. I was curious because I will be heating my shop with a 5500 watt electric heater this winter, this gives me a guideline to what I'll be spending each day that I turn the heat on. Sure hope it warms up where you are, or you don't need to live in your camper full time!Brian

Hi Don:Judging from this post I take it that the idea of going through this winter without finding shore-power has flown out the window, and we are about two weeks before the calendar start of winter.Have you considered winterizing the plumbing yet, or is that still working out?Mark

Hi Mark,I never intended to go sans power in the winter--just that I was doing it at folks homes, Churches and the like.I did winterize two weeks ago--because I flew to Toronto to visit a friend and have been gone since then.I could add water again now--but I'll be going south next Saturday (not in the rv unfortunately)--so it is probably not worth it. I can manage, with a little inconvenience, to use the campground showers and the toilet. They are a five minute walk away.

Hi,The purpose of doing this was to get a time frame on how long it takes to warm up the rv using only electric power, and to see how much is needed.This morning at 7 a.m. the front of the rv was 19.6 C (67.3 f), the bedroom was 24 C (75.2 f) and outside it was -22.4 C (-8.4 f).The forecast low tonight is -31 C (-24 f) so we will see how the system works now that it has finally got the RV more or less warmed up.There appear to be no cold drafts happening. I think that is due to the covers I had made from insulbright (a "sandwich" made from layer of cloth, a layer of shiny mylar, a layer of batting, and an inside cloth chosen to match the interior fabric).

Hi Brian,Fortunately the campsite comes with "all you can eat" power. I'll try to do a "history" for you as my watt meter does track usage. (if I can figure the darn thing out.)Wattage has dropped down to about 3800 now, which makes it clear it would be extremely hard to do this with just a 30 amp service. Fortunately I have the 30 amp oem, 20 amp auxiliary, and 15 amp auxiliary shore power cords.Time to go run a cord to plug in the block heater on the car.

heating electrically a "back yard" report | Good Sam Community

greenrvgreen
Explorer
Dec 08, 2013
Good point. Darn tough to spot a Frostback in Arizona, wandering around in the 80 degree heat in Sorels and a down jacket, trying to pass off money with pictures of women on it.
gmctoyman
Explorer
Dec 08, 2013
I use some 2x4 heated rugs in my Lazy Daze. The dogs, & my dogs love'em. 165w race ~ 102°F
MM49
Explorer
Dec 08, 2013
Hi Tuna

What do you think about a heat stripe in the A/C unit? I was in Lexington at a horse show and all the high end trailers with living quarter had this feature. I am only interested in the best comfort level. I'll work on efficiency later.

You could buy 4-5 of my Sunnybrook's for the price of one horse trailer.

MM49
ktmrfs
Explorer II
Dec 08, 2013
MM49 wrote:
Hi Tuna

What do you think about a heat stripe in the A/C unit? I was in Lexington at a horse show and all the high end trailers with living quarter had this feature. I am only interested in the best comfort level. I'll work on efficiency later.

You could buy 4-5 of my Sunnybrook's for the price of one horse trailer.

MM49

I have heatstrips in the AC units in both my trailers. The description of them is "chill chaser" and that's an apt description. they generally are a 1500-1800 watt heating element, somewhat more than the common 1500watt portable electric heater. It can be part of a solution, but it isn't going to be the solution in cold weather. The advantage/disadvantage is it will run the heat through your AC ducts. Advantage is it tries to heat the whole trailer. Disadvantage is it tries to heat the whole trailer. Mild temps its an advantage, once it gets cold, a disadvantage.

good for a "fall" chill day, not real good for real winter weather.
pianotuna
Nomad III
Dec 08, 2013
Hi,

What KT said and add the air conditioner is noisy. The fan in it can eventually wear out, too. I do have a heat strip.

Usually, if there is a wall thermostat it is not possible to run the furnace and the heat strip at the same time. One of my many mods was to add a 2nd thermometer that is for the furnace only. That way I can run the heat strip--and if it can't keep up the furnace will "join the team".

I'm down to running 3 to 4 thousand watts now--but temp is supposed to drop to -31 C--so that may adjust itself upwards.
MM49
Explorer
Dec 08, 2013
Thanks, That is exactly what it was like at the horse show. I though they were great on chilly fall day.
MM49
ktmrfs
Explorer II
Dec 08, 2013
pianotuna wrote:
Hi,

What KT said and add the air conditioner is noisy. The fan in it can eventually wear out, too. I do have a heat strip.

Usually, if there is a wall thermostat it is not possible to run the furnace and the heat strip at the same time. One of my many mods was to add a 2nd thermometer that is for the furnace only. That way I can run the heat strip--and if it can't keep up the furnace will "join the team".

I'm down to running 3 to 4 thousand watts now--but temp is supposed to drop to -31 C--so that may adjust itself upwards.

yup, absolutely correct.

yes, it is noisy, just like the AC on low, and unless you have the matching thermostat, yes only the heat strip runs. There is a thermostat that will switch between the heat strip and furnace when the temp drops enough.

But, it really is only a chill chaser and if you use it for that it's fine.
mena661
Explorer
Dec 08, 2013
What is the difference between a heat strip and a heat pump?
greenrvgreen
Explorer
Dec 08, 2013
I had a second look at Brian/"Vintage Racer's" cost calculations, and the math seems a bit off to the high side.

If Tuna is running 5500 watts of heat, that's 5.5 kwh times the 11.13 rate, or 61 cents per hour at full blast. That's less than $15/day. No bargain, cetainly, but compare that to the cost of ANY CG.

Daytime use levelled off to 3-4 thousand watts. Can we call that 3500? 3.5 times 11.13 is a 39 cent hourly rate, or $4.68 for 12 hours. Add in $7.35 for the dark 12 hours, and you have an adjusted cost of $12.03 per day, or $375 per month--if you're plugged in. If you're running a gas gennie, the cost per kwh is likely 6 times as much, or $2,000 per month.

Again, I can't help thinking that bedroom is getting richly fed at 2300 watts of heat when nobody's in it.
pianotuna
Nomad III
Dec 09, 2013
Hi mena,

A heat pump extracts heat from the air (or water, or ground). Essentially it is an air conditioner being run backwards.

The cost of running the compressor compared to the watts of heat extracted is about 100% more than running plain electric resistance heat at the lowest operating temperature for the "pump". The "catch" is that below freezing there is little heat that a unit can extract. They work well above about 4 C (40 f). There are some models that work below freezing.

In homes it is easy to dig down below the frost line--and use a heat pump to extract energy. There are also systems that work with water.

Unfortunately those water based and ground based systems are not available to rver's. I don't think that digging down 8 or 9 feet would be looked on favorably by a campground owner.

mena661 wrote:
What is the difference between a heat strip and a heat pump?

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