I was recently browsing around in an electronics store and saw one of those portable battery packs for charging iPhones/iPads that had a 10,000 mAh capacity for $20. If I'm doing my math correctly that's 10 Ah ($2 per Ah of capacity). A pair of T-105s might run you about $250 and get you 225 Ah of capacity, but not going below 50% SOC means just 112 usable Ah. That's $2.23 per Ah of capacity.Of course I'm sure there's more to it than that. The iPhone charger was a sale item and may not actually reflect current Li-ion prices. Also, who knows what the overall longevity/durability of the Li-ion batteries will be compared to the FLA and if 100% of the stated capacity of the Li-ion pack is usable. However it is obvious that Li-ion prices have been steadily dropping while FLA prices are stable. Also, since AGM is about double the cost of FLA, it seems reasonable to think that Li-ion may already be competitive with AGM, if not cheaper. So, this gets me wondering how far we are from seeing widespread use of Li-ion batteries in the RV industry.

One other thing that occurred to me, watt hours would be a better comparison. Ah as capacity is only valid as a comparator if the volts are the same, and I don't think these portable chargers are 12v. Still, the overall argument is the same, Li-ion prices are dropping and FLA is not. Im just wondering when will the crossover occur.

787 uses Lithium Ion batteries.

They will probably drop in price when WalMart starts importing them from China by the boat load.

I've been flying electric RC planes for 10? years now and have seen Lithiumbattery prices plummet (?) in that time period. I now purchase twice the Ah for 1/2 the price. The advantage of Lithium is that they can deliver enormous amounts of current (full throttle on my plane equates to 80amps @ ~18Volts) and the weight is small in comparison.I see FLA batteries going away within the next 5 years - cars will no longer have FLA batteries and be equipped with small/light-weight Li; The RV industry will surely follow.

that lithium phone pack is what voltage 5v ? 3.7v ?you need (3) times much to equal the same 10ahr as 12vso you would need to spend $60 for (3) packs in series to get 15v~14.1v so that becomes $6 per amp hr, your 225ampHrs would cost $1350 to buildyes i think you can buy One cheaper than that, but way more than FLA12v ? lithium cost more than 12v AGM, so NO its not cost competitive with FLA NOT Yet

Li-ion soon to be price competitive with FLA? | Good Sam Community

KJINTF
Explorer
Sep 20, 2015
I agree Lead Acid technology has reached it's "End of Life"
Li battery technology - May or may not be the future but it's here today and available now at a reasonable cost

Sure my Li pack cost more than the comparable Lead Acid AGM heavy lead batteries. IMHO the updside of LiFePO4 is well worth the extra expense
However each of use has to make our own decision there are always trade off's to be made
RDMueller
Explorer
Sep 20, 2015
True, the voltage was something I had not considered initially, which means I was off by approx a factor of 3. Still though, if prices keep falling, within a few years Li-ion may be in the range of AGM. Also, since this technology is developing in the automotive world, it's probably just a matter of time before we start to see it.
landyacht318
Explorer
Sep 20, 2015
As pointed out 10,000mah at 5v is NOT 10,000mah at 12.x volts. Also these USB power packs will never deliver their ratings. The cells might claim that much when in parallel, but there are conversion losses in stepping up the 3.5 to 4.2vdc to 5vdc

Many claim that given the amount of cycles lithium claims to be able to deliver, along with the fact that one can get away with less overall storage capacity, and the fact that lithium does not sulfate and lose capacity if not regularly fully charged, It already might be cheaper, in the long run, to go Lithium.

It is just the initial outlay of the Lithium bank, the BMS and adapting the charging sources is so much more expensive than buying another pair of Golf carts.
Naio
Explorer II
Sep 20, 2015
Mexicowanderer has pointed out that many cell phone power packs flat out lie about what aH they can hold. So, there's that.

I would LOVE to have a huge lithium battery for my van!
MrWizard
Moderator
Sep 20, 2015
that lithium phone pack is what voltage 5v ? 3.7v ?

you need (3) times much to equal the same 10ahr as 12v
so you would need to spend $60 for (3) packs in series to get 15v~14.1v
so that becomes $6 per amp hr, your 225ampHrs would cost $1350 to build
yes i think you can buy One cheaper than that, but way more than FLA

12v ? lithium cost more than 12v AGM, so NO its not cost competitive with FLA NOT Yet
fitznj
Explorer
Sep 20, 2015
I've been flying electric RC planes for 10? years now and have seen Lithium
battery prices plummet (?) in that time period. I now purchase twice the Ah for 1/2 the price. The advantage of Lithium is that they can deliver enormous amounts of current (full throttle on my plane equates to 80amps @ ~18Volts) and the weight is small in comparison.

I see FLA batteries going away within the next 5 years - cars will no longer have FLA batteries and be equipped with small/light-weight Li; The RV industry will surely follow.
gbopp
Explorer
Sep 20, 2015
They will probably drop in price when WalMart starts importing them from China by the boat load.
deltabravo
Nomad
Sep 20, 2015
787 uses Lithium Ion batteries.
RDMueller
Explorer
Sep 20, 2015
One other thing that occurred to me, watt hours would be a better comparison. Ah as capacity is only valid as a comparator if the volts are the same, and I don't think these portable chargers are 12v. Still, the overall argument is the same, Li-ion prices are dropping and FLA is not. Im just wondering when will the crossover occur.

Forum Discussion

Li-ion soon to be price competitive with FLA?

About Technical Issues

Related Content

Competition for the Anderson Ultimate ??

vet prices

Diesel Price

Roadtrek Pricing

Is the Ram 1500 finally catching up with the competition?