LIthium battery upgrade - Complete!

Wikel wrote:
Couple hundred dollars to protect a couple thousand dollars in equipment but also helps make sure the cycle count doesn't take a hit.

I do value this part of the controls and at the same time the cut off at 10 volts and 15 volts would do a little better IMO to not torture the battery at top or bottom of the capacity.

I'd rather not roll the dice in relation to luck and a Lithium Iron pack. It's like dumping gas onto a couple of thousand dollars, striking a lighter and hope that it doesn't flame.

Consider it insurance and I'd think about a backup in case the primary control fails.

Couple hundred dollars to protect a couple thousand dollars in equipment but also helps make sure the cycle count doesn't take a hit.

Unclear on the concept?

The USER can rectify under and overcharge problems with flooded or absorbed glass mat.

The USER can dictate the charger type, capacity, and function.

The USER checks water and maintains a flooded battery

NO ONE (clear enough?) can dictate viability of cell to cell lithium charge and discharge control. This is a hidden automated process.

If ONE. (1) Singular cell to cell control module goes bad. Not only does the battery STOP WORKING 100% dead, the malfunctioning controller DESTROYS THE CELL.

And there is not a DAMNED THING you or I can do about it. Strike that. No one will know the cell controller is bad until the lights go out.

Are cell to cell controllers "fixable"? Shirley you jest.

So insanely costly expense is demanded to over-grade design cell to cell monitoring and control. But the USER will not have a clue as to an impending malfunction.

I designed hideously durable voltage regulators for circmnavigation. 150 amp 600 volt power transistors, 1 amp 1,000 volt driver transistors. 5x over-rated mil-spec resistors and zener diodes. Gold plated connections. Capacitor dampened to the max. Fast react fuses backing Klixxon breakers. National Controls Corp epoxy sealed timers (adjustable for time). Then I threw in an extra power and an extra driver transistor.

At sea a failed reverse osmosis system, GPS, or even autopilot can mean death. Yet some INSIST on using cruising sailboats as a reference platform to recommend Lithim Ion.

Got ANY IDEA. Any idea at all of the number of Lithium Ion batteries those 50 foot ketches and 60 foot sloops haul? Redundancy and backup. Substitution options? A big sloop may have 3,000 ampere hours in batteries, 200 amperes of alternator. A generator with a 100 amp alternator of its own and then a 200 ampere AC battery charger.

To compare the viability of such a vessel's battery system with someone (RVer) seeking a single LiIon battery is ludicrous. Many of the vessel owners I troubleshoot for have incomes in the 700K+ annual range. Have a problem? Make port and have a substitute replacement flown in on DHL.

Any new EXTREME limited public exposure entity from mechanical to electrical to medicine, will be rife with ecstatic endorsements, stories of miracles, life changing enhancement and stuff that would make even Herb Tarlek blush.

Lithium Ion cars contain HUGE and EXPENSIVE monitoring and control systems.

Forget about well documented limitations on performance and damaging accidental abuse. RON POPIEL has stepped into the TV kitchen with a new 8,000 in 1 gadget and the phones are going to start ringing.

:)

Airmon wrote:

time2roll wrote:
I would be tempted to skip the controller.

The controller is built into the battery, which is one of the nice things about these batteries.

Yes and what does the controller add to the price?
Considering the systems in place... I would be tempted to skip the internal controller.

Balancing the internal cells would be the only critical function for me.

Wikel wrote:

Missed that. Looks like they have CAN support and information to integrate into Victron infrastructure. Score! Thanks again Airmon.

Glad to help. If you get the batteries and put a system together, please PM me, I'd love to hear how it goes together.

time2roll wrote:


I would be tempted to skip the controller.

The controller is built into the battery, which is one of the nice things about these batteries.

MEXICOWANDERER wrote:
My issue other than for cold weather is NOT the chemistry nor the performance.

Throw the price out the window. For now.

My issue is with an insane amount of electronics and electrical needed to manage a battery bank. Yeah, the Jim Varney syndrome...

Your argument is basically that it's not mass lemmings ready? Would you say flooded or AGM batteries are? Based upon your measurement, it wouldn't be either. Flooded batteries have to be fluid checked every month. Don't over volt them or they will boil out. Both AGM and Flooded need high cycles every now and them to clear out the build up on the plates. Everything has thresholds (bottom and top) and some bit of human and electrical controls around it, which eases end user mistakes to some degree.

So I guess my interpretation of your response is nothing is acceptable unless absolutely perfect and end user tolerant, otherwise never use it?

Airmon wrote:

You didn't look at the rest of that site. They have a complete BMS with a bluetooth link for <$300, plus a system controller for about the same price. Add in a few contactors and you're golden.

Missed that. Looks like they have CAN support and information to integrate into Victron infrastructure. Score! Thanks again Airmon.

You can use LI in the cold so long as there is a heated battery box. I'm still not convinced I want LI in my living space.

If I had pockets deep enough I'd go to the Firefly carbon foam units.

From Relion:

Auto Low Voltage Cutoff: 8V
Auto Over Voltage Cutoff: 15.6V

https://carolina-energy-distributors.myshopify.com/collections/12v-lithium-ion-batteries/products/12v-300ah

OK how hard can that be? I speak with fair amount of confidence my GC2s have never been below 10 volts, let alone 9 volts or 8 volts. And how hard can it be to keep them under 15.6 volts? Everything should cut off at 14.4 to maybe 14.8 max.

I would be tempted to skip the controller.

Current limits? Hello, put a fuse on it.