Loaded V vs OCV for DOD Lifeline AGMs ?

LeRoy, don't go away, just start a new topic. We need all the members we can get. :) As OP of this thread I didn't mind your posts, but there are forum rules of course.

full_mosey wrote:

Hi LeRoy;

I believe this question deserves a new topic. What you have done is cross-post this into two different topics. That is against forum rules.

If you will start a new topic I will be happy to engage in a conversation.

HTH;
John

John,

You are 100% correct and I thank you for reminding me of the rules. I apologize to all the forum members for corrupting this thread. I will use the "Notify Moderators" button to ask them to remove my posts.
LeRoy

Homeless by Choice wrote:
I mean no disrespect to all of you who are trying to charge batteries properly but this is all beyond my knowledge and skill levels. I have been wrestling with the battery charging issue since 2005 when I got my first 5th wheel trailer and I still don’t know how to properly charge my batteries. I just wish that a reasonably knowledgeable person would say a “good enough” battery maintenance procedure for those with limited skills is:
1.
2.
3.

I mainly boondock with 250 watts of solar and two 105 amp hour AGM batteries. I get about seven years of service out of my batteries. I use AGM because it means no checking or adding water and the terminals are always corrosion free. My batteries are around 80% full charge each morning and they are generally 98-99% full charge each afternoon. Beyond that I can’t tell you anymore. I don’t ever recall them below 70% full charge.

Again, I am not criticizing anyone for their comments or advice but it is not understandable and therefore not usable for me.

Thank you,
LeRoy

Hi LeRoy;

I believe this question deserves a new topic. What you have done is cross-post this into two different topics. That is against forum rules.

If you will start a new topic I will be happy to engage in a conversation.

HTH;
John

Now that I m old and do not want to fuss with ANYTHING ANY MORE I stay in hotels and ring down for room service.

Horsepacking in comfort meant making enclosed kitchens, brine freezing, burlap floor canvas enclosed deer hanging pulleys for raising solar shower bags.

While thunderstorms roared hail and rain, I would sit in the dining area and read, then take a long hot shower. Then prepare a gourmet salad and golden trout main meal with asparagus with hollandaise sauce, appropriate wine, corn on the cob and finish with apple cobbler sometime ice cream. Traditional backpackers would pass by reeking of body odor and near starvation from choking down dehydrated squirrel droppings from a pouch.

So when someone wants to drag a 5th Ave penthouse behind them then demand city living in the sticks I do not have a tear to shed on them.

It takes WORK to learn how to do this stuff right. Whether laden with air conditioning and a 55" flat screen and vibrating massage chair, or setting up a one month pack mule string camp it takes using the noodle or settling for a dude ranch.

One hot day 22 miles in, I was slurping an iced drink and as I passed a couple of beleaguered purists they remarked "If that's snow you're gonna get sick". "Snow?" I replied. "No it's real ice". They raised their eyes in skepticism. "From a little store right over that ridge". The store was my camp and the ice was a product of brine freezing spring water.

After all, All's I want is cake and eat it too"

One does not need to go crazy seeking ideal battery recharging regimens for maximum possible longevity

But it helps to know whay crazy ideal would be, if it were desired to be achieved.

Likewise one should also know which habits will kill capacity within two years.

Treating batteries poorly and simplyreplacing them more often is a very valid strategy.

Good enough is subjective. opinion. One user's 'just fine' might be another's woefully inadequate.

The info in these forums are to help one decide on what is 'just fine' for themselves.

This has all been interesting but also makes my brain hurt. I’ve come to the realization that all this solar stuff is not what I hoped it would be. The batteries are so very delicate and require such intensive care that it takes all the fun out of it.
Please don’t get me wrong, I understand it’s probably fun for y’all, but I just wanted to
be able to watch a little tv and run my heater for a few minutes without wrecking the whole system. I think I’ll jjst get what I can out of this $1750.00 investment I made in December and then return to Walmart for new batteries that aren’t as delicate.
Good luck fellas, hope you get it under control real soon!!!

LeRoy, you are doing it right for the way you camp, so you have good results. LY does his right for how he operates. I have mixed results where I keep changing scenarios and use unconventional set-ups so sometimes I have "issues". :) or :( depending.

I mean no disrespect to all of you who are trying to charge batteries properly but this is all beyond my knowledge and skill levels. I have been wrestling with the battery charging issue since 2005 when I got my first 5th wheel trailer and I still don’t know how to properly charge my batteries. I just wish that a reasonably knowledgeable person would say a “good enough” battery maintenance procedure for those with limited skills is:
1.
2.
3.

I mainly boondock with 250 watts of solar and two 105 amp hour AGM batteries. I get about seven years of service out of my batteries. I use AGM because it means no checking or adding water and the terminals are always corrosion free. My batteries are around 80% full charge each morning and they are generally 98-99% full charge each afternoon. Beyond that I can’t tell you anymore. I don’t ever recall them below 70% full charge.

Again, I am not criticizing anyone for their comments or advice but it is not understandable and therefore not usable for me.

Thank you,
LeRoy

I thought Lifeline's conditioning charge was 15.5v for 8 hours after a regular 'ful' charge was completed. You raise it to 16v based on battery temp?

I've only briefly allowed my Northstar over 15v, and use Odyssey's reconditioning procedure which basically says draw down to 10V under the load of the headlights (~15 amps) then use 40% of the 10 hour charge rate until amps taper to near zero. Odyssey and northstar are both TPPL AGMS, thin plate pure lead, so while NS does not have good literature on any recon mode I've just been using Odyssey rec's on the NS.

I have only drawn to 10.5v under load, not 10.0v and only done so twice, but post Recon mode the amps would taper lower on the next charge cycle and it would seem to take less time to taper to 0.5%.

I have a fairly new small chinese 18Ah AGM whose marketer's said to use the UB12180 spec sheet in regards to charging. That would be no more than 5.4 amps at 14.5 to 14.9v in 'cyclic' use.

I let it go on my Meanwell's 40 available amps set to 14.7v when discharged below 50%. 38 was saturation peak amperage, it quickly dropped to 32 amps and some 5 minutes later was still 25 amps. It had not risen appreciably in temperature in that time, but I was uncomfortable leaving it at 25 amp charge rate while I could not closely monitor it, so I lowered voltage until only 10 amps were flowing and raised it back up twice in passing to 14.7v.

Far in excess of the 'recommended' max charge rate on china's cheapest AGM brand. No sulfur scent, no mushroom cloud.

The amperage refused to taper to the 0.09 ampsat 14.7v, until I did a few more deep cycles, and will still occassionally refuse to taper to the 0.5% of capacity at 14.7v. The self discharge of this battery is not great, for an AGM, just like the data sheet shows.

BUt an 18AH Odyssey AGM battery was more than 3x the price.

The chinese 18Ah AGM can by itself start my engine in warm ambient temps, I got it mainly for backup jump starter duty as the degradation speed of my aged Northstar AGM from here on out is an unknown. I also wanted an easily portable 12vDC source to jumpstart others, as I hate connecting my vehicle electrically to others.

Discharging my battery to 10.5v relatively quickly is done via my inverter and a 200 watt heater, and any other DC loadsI feel like conjuring. Once the inverter alarm started screeching I used the ~10 amps of other loads to keep going towards 10.5v, then quickly apply 65 amps up to 14.7 then constant voltage it until amps stop tapering.

I can't say whether this is a good strategy for your UPG 8D, but since you can monitor temperature and have huge amperage adjustable voltage power supplies, I say try it out drain the effer well below 50% and hit it with all your charging sources in parallel. Figure out what the saturation amperage is, monitor heat build up, see if it performs better afterwards.

Obviously i am not recommending huge charge rates every time, but an occassional high amp blast from a well depleted state could dissolve some hardened sulfate that lesser currents for lesser amounts of time cannot, and restore some capacity to some degree.

I think my 38 amps into an 18AH chinese AGM nullifies the mushroom cloud theory on 27%-33% max AGMs. The 'trickle charge' fan boys would have a conniption, but that's probably good for them.

This is why I recommended BFL talk to Concorde.

By FAR the easiest way to query an AGM battery to see up is to fully charge the battery a week after you get it./// amps and volts twiddling to your heart's content.

later, down the line, repeat the tests then compare to brand new.

Example wait one hour before disconnecting a fully charged AGM but tweak the voltage up .5 volts for that one hour. Disconnect and take surface charge volt readings for the next 2 days. What do you see? Many spurious observances can be had with non standard testing. Gains in OBSERVED can be disqualified with a carbon pile load tester. AGAIN! Test when new compared with subsequent tests.