Progressive surge protecter / EMS and inverters

AFIAK, and please correct me if I am wrong, a PSW inverter that can keep the sine wave going under load is just as good as plugging into the mains. However, a MSW that will change into a different wave form may not work well with the EMS systems.

As for a generator, I have not seen anyone complain or have issues by plugging their EMS into a Honda or Yamaha inverter model. But this is anecdotal evidence, and one probably is best asking Progressive about this if unclear.

Larryect wrote:
I was wondering if any one has noticed the owners manual for the EMS-HW30C, 30 amp progressive surge and voltage protector states to NOT plug it into an inverter?

I am wondering if this includes our inverter generators, true sine wave inverters etc.

Have any of you investigated this, or have you used the unit with an inverter?

.

Funny that you ask. I noticed this warning in my EMS-HW30C owner's manual, too. I called Progressive Industries directly to get the scoop. The individual who answered the phone identified himself as the "owner". He said they'd had problems with inverters (12 vdc to 110 vac type) seriously "interfering" with the EMS to the point of making them inop (asked him if it was a PSW or MSW inverter that was causing the issue, but he wasn't sure). Anyhow, he took my name down and said to go ahead and try my inverter generator with my EMS. If I had any problems he said he'd replace it. I hooked up my inverter generator to the EMS and it worked fine (with the bonding plug, of course). Not much of a technical explanation here, but it's my story and I'm stickin' to it :)

What would be the reason to plus into an inverter of any kind?

This is sometimes confusing

I will describe two line setups

Inverter----EMS(Surge Protector)----RV

Park Pedistal---EMS(As above)----RV--Sub branch--Inverter--Sub panel--Sub-sub loads

The first is a DO NOT, (With exceptions) the second is the proper way

In short DO NOT plug the EMS into a MSW inverter.. It won't pass MSW and may be harmed by it.

With TRUE SINE inverters.. I am withholding comment other than the fact is. it is not needed.

The EMS is supposed to protect you against High/low Voltage or frequency or bad waveform (MSW inverters) in some models.

With an TSW inverter all it is going to do is waste power.. So do not use it, The reason for this is the frequency is set by a very solid reference (likely crystal) and likely will be as good as or better than a good power company.

Likewise if the voltage goes out of range the inverter itself will shut down (or should). So the EMS is just going to sit there and suck a few watts.


However none of that really applies as we do not normally plug our RV's into an inverter (Unless it is an INVERTER generator and those are TSW) (And some models do not have that good a voltage regulation) . Inverters INSIDE the RV you won't be plugging the EMS into, you will be plugging them (Via the RV's shore cord) into the EMS. That is allowed.

OTRFUN.....what do you mean by bonding plug?
Thanks

Thanks for the replies.

I installed the hard wired unit into my trailer: Trailer plug > EMS > Distribution box. No transfer switch. No built in generator.

I carry a Yamaha 2400 generator, that according to Yamaha is MSW, safe for electronics.

I just installed a stand alone XANTREX 1000 watt Prosine True sine wave inverter. Permanetly hooked to the 2 group 27 marine batteries the trailer came with. But, not tied into the 120v AC system.

So, a couple of thoughts were: My inverter probabaly makes a better sine wave than my generator. But, there was no warning not to use an inverter generator....... Also, If I want to run on battery, I could run extension cords into the trailer and run specifc items. Or, I could plug the trailer into the inverter, shut off the converter, fridge and water heater, and then run what I want to run (CPAP, TV DVD), without having cords all over.

I called Prosine today and a technician called me back. He said the "Inverter" generators are fine. And even said I would need to bond the ground to neutral or bypass the unit to get it to work. But, they had not done testing on the "true Sine Wave" inverters. Although he knew some people that have tried it with no ill affects, he couldn't advise me to do it.

GaPete wrote:
OTRFUN.....what do you mean by bonding plug?
Thanks

Based on Larryetc's post I think I see what you are talking about. A plug for gen recept with grd/neutral bonded????

GaPete - Correct. These little generators have an un-bonded neutral/ground and the EMS units will see that as a no-ground fault.


Personally I agree with mlts22. I think the EMS wouldn't have a clue it was plugged into the Xantrex.... I suspect it is a blanket warning about cheap inverters - which I have used for other things before.....

GaPete wrote:

GaPete wrote:
OTRFUN.....what do you mean by bonding plug?
Thanks

Based on Larryetc's post I think I see what you are talking about. A plug for gen recept with grd/neutral bonded????

Ref the bonding plug. If you don't use one with your generator more than likely your PI EMS will return an E2 or Open Ground error and will not allow any power into your TT. You do have the option of turning off ALL EMS protection and allowing unprotected power to enter your TT from your generator rather than use the bonding plug.

The bonding plug I use is a dummy 110 volt plug with the neutral bonded/connected to the ground. I plug the dummy bonding plug into the vacant 110 plug on my generator before I power my TT with it.

This bonding plug is very controversial. Some say it's unsafe, others say the risk is minimal. All I can say is google the pros and cons and make your own decision.

Thanks for the education guys. I have toted 2 Yamahas for 2 years and have yet to need them. Better build me a plug to tote around too.